Rate brands of pedal steel guitars

Instruments, mechanical issues, copedents, techniques, etc.

Moderator: Dave Mudgett

Donny Hinson
Posts: 21830
Joined: 16 Feb 1999 1:01 am
Location: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Donny Hinson »

I think it's probably hard to argue that while Emmons and Sho~Bud were king of the hill for a long time, Mullen and Zum have now taken their place. (No, I don't own either one, so there's no favoritism there.) :|

Still, I feel that each major brand has an area or two where they excel, but none is really close to "hitting it out of the park", getting everything (or even most things) right. I find things that displease me on all steels - but then again, that's to be expected. I look at a steel like a player, an engineer, but also as a casual observer and craftsman. It amazes me how many players are impressed by very simple things, polished metal and simple wood finishing, while they completely miss other aspects or touches that are equally simple, but totally glaring in their absence: Knee levers that aren't rounded on the edges, pedal boards without improved fastenings, knee levers that can't easily be moved, pickups that don't plug in, guitars with no volume or tone controls, guitars with slotted pullers that require a dingus to retain them, guitars with too many or too few pulling adjustments, pedals that can't be moved or adjusted easily, guitars with no place to set your picks and bar, guitars with tuning keys too close together, guitars without sliding or movable pickups, expensive guitars with cheap fretboards and nameplates, totally boring (boxy) designs, cases without wheels, cases that are far too heavy, guitars with "open" changers that love to catch string ends...and the list just goes on and on. :?

As others have said, most all guitars today are very good, mechanically and sound-wise, but it's obvious (to me, anyway) there's room for a ton of aesthetic and practical improvements. After seeing what real craftsmen in other fields can do, I must admit that most steels are seriously plain and boxy. Unlike a lotta players, I just don't get all "gooshie" over the grain pattern in a flat board. :\
Ray Anderson
Posts: 845
Joined: 8 Mar 2011 7:58 pm
Location: Jenkins, Kentucky USA
State/Province: Kentucky
Country: United States

Post by Ray Anderson »

Just sayin', How many of us could honestly answer that and be fair to all the builders? My guess. Very few. Unless you have played ALL of them with a fair amount of time and playing, then I see this as a loaded question.JMHO I think we lean to favorites and not facts. BTW a "fender" is something that fit over a wheel and that is where they should be. :lol: :lol: +1 Gibson Les Paul :mrgreen:
User avatar
Bent Romnes
Posts: 5985
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 2:35 pm
Location: London,Ontario, Canada
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Bent Romnes »

Donny Hinson wrote:. I look at a steel like a player, an engineer, but also as a casual observer and craftsman. completely miss other aspects or touches that are equally simple, but totally glaring in their absence: Knee levers that aren't rounded on the edges, pedal boards without improved fastenings, knee levers that can't easily be moved, pickups that don't plug in, guitars with no volume or tone controls, guitars with slotted pullers that require a dingus to retain them, guitars with too many or too few pulling adjustments, pedals that can't be moved or adjusted easily, guitars with no place to set your picks and bar, guitars with "open" changers that love to catch string ends...and the list just goes on and on. :?

:\
Donny, so noted and hopefully committed to memory.
Thanks for bringing out some very viable concerns.
User avatar
Jim Cohen
Posts: 21849
Joined: 18 Nov 1999 1:01 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA
State/Province: Pennsylvania
Country: United States

Post by Jim Cohen »

Lane Gray wrote:Don't y'all have one in the northeast?
Yes, we have a great show in the NE (PSGA) but not too many manufacturers come up there with instrument displays.
User avatar
Lane Gray
Posts: 13684
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Topeka, KS
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Lane Gray »

Donny, you mentioned many good points, but as to volume and tone knobs, most players never turn them. I had a tone knob on my push-pull, also on both MSAs. I turned them all the way up. They were absent, but not missed, on my Marlen and my Zum.
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
User avatar
Dale Kath
Posts: 135
Joined: 10 Jun 2012 8:48 am
Location: Michigan, USA
State/Province: Michigan
Country: United States

Rate brands

Post by Dale Kath »

I'll say one thing about the steel guitar forum, if you ask a question,..it gets ANSWERED! Fantastic!
User avatar
Tony Glassman
Posts: 4488
Joined: 18 Jan 2005 1:01 am
Location: The Great Northwest
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Tony Glassman »

Did I misread this thread title? I thought this was a rate the brands thread....not what improvements I'd like to see in steel guitar production thread ......just sayin'
User avatar
John Palumbo
Posts: 507
Joined: 8 Mar 2010 12:31 pm
Location: Lansdale, PA.
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by John Palumbo »

My current guitar is a Williams S-10, great guitar, changer design awesome, compact, great tone quality of workmanship terrific,. One only negative to me engaging the knee levers may take a little more effort, than other guitars I've played perhaps this is just me, but I love the guitar otherwise. I previously owned a Mullen SD-10 Royal Precision again great quality here and great ease of playability, workmanship incredible, to me easier engaging the knee levers than the Williams, but just a couple of cosmetic things I did not care for was the split (2)pc keyhead again just cosmetics and the formed rounded corners on the end plates, but I'm being real picky here. Loved that guitar also.
Tracy Sheehan
Posts: 1383
Joined: 24 Sep 2003 12:01 am
Location: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
State/Province: Texas
Country: United States

Speaking of color.

Post by Tracy Sheehan »

I commented on this subject years ago and will again for the newbies or the ones who missed it.

This is the absolute truth. Sevveral years a ago i was working the road for a great female singer who was more of a pop singer but could do either very well.
Back then i had a ZB Custom D10. I had a steel builder rebuild the underside and change it to bell cranks and cross rods. I was loaned a black D 10 PP Emmons to use while my ZB was having its over haul under the hood. The lady i worked for said that things ugly. She thought i had bought it. So to each of his or hers what color they like or dislike.
The only reason i later traded the ZB off was because it was a single raise and lower. Time was marching on and double and triple rasise had become the new thing.IMHO i believe all this what sounds best is in the players head.

Later on i have owned and played several different brands of steel and when buying, the first thing i looked at was how it was built under the hood. Tracy
User avatar
Lane Gray
Posts: 13684
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Topeka, KS
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Lane Gray »

Tony Glassman wrote:Did I misread this thread title? I thought this was a rate the brands thread....not what improvements I'd like to see in steel guitar production thread ......just sayin'
Tony, I'd think that any downgrade oughtta come with a why.
My only downgrade goes to the GFI. The styling leaves me cold. A lot of good players like 'em, presumably for more than just the weight savings.
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
User avatar
Tony Glassman
Posts: 4488
Joined: 18 Jan 2005 1:01 am
Location: The Great Northwest
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Tony Glassman »

Lane Gray wrote:
Tony Glassman wrote:Did I misread this thread title? I thought this was a rate the brands thread....not what improvements I'd like to see in steel guitar production thread ......just sayin'
Tony, I'd think that any downgrade oughtta come with a why.
My only downgrade goes to the GFI. The styling leaves me cold. A lot of good players like 'em, presumably for more than just the weight savings.
No put-down to the other manufacturers was intended.....As a matter of fact, I think most of the current guitars out there are exceptionally well built.

It's just that I've always been the most satisfied when playing a P/P or LeGrande.
User avatar
Ned McIntosh
Posts: 802
Joined: 4 Oct 2008 7:09 am
Location: New South Wales, Australia
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Ned McIntosh »

1. Anapeg

2. All the rest.
The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being.
User avatar
Dave Mudgett
Moderator
Posts: 10556
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 12:01 am
Location: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
State/Province: Pennsylvania
Country: United States

Post by Dave Mudgett »

I know this is highly subjective...
Once you get past some of the junkier starter guitars, this is strictly subjective. Even if you want to start talking about 'objective' standards, the very choice of criteria is strictly subjective.

There are a lot of really good pedal steels out there, but my 2 Zums and 1 Franklin get almost all my time, and I have had a bunch of different ones. Those 3 just sound and feel the way I personally prefer a pedal steel to sound and feel - sound very clear and present, mechanics firm but very precise. But there must be at least 20 other brands out there that are very good guitars - I've tried as many as I can get my hands on. Although Donny's correct to argue that none are perfect, perfection is over-rated and most of the major brand modern professional steels are very good (to my tastes). There are also some 'sleepers' out there that can be had very reasonably, if that is up there on your list of evaluation criteria.

Really, to properly evaluate this, I think you really need to think about your personal evaluation criteria very carefully. If you take advice without doing that or without asking other people 'why' they prefer what they do, you might as well use a roulette wheel to make your choice. My opinion.
User avatar
CrowBear Schmitt
Posts: 11624
Joined: 8 Apr 2000 12:01 am
Location: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by CrowBear Schmitt »

compared to 30 years ago we've got a one heck of a choice !
there are so many great manufacturers who offer exquisite reliable & in tune psgs
i won't tell which ones i prefer, but i will suggest you try'em out at your local steel dealer, steelin' neighbor, convention or steel jam & decide for your own bad self ;-)
Tommy White
Posts: 2253
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Nashville
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Tommy White »

I believe Donny's post to be very relevant to this thread and I agree with it, especially something as simple as cheap looking tape fretboards, and for goodness sake, is it to much to ask for a wheeled case as standard?
Last edited by Tommy White on 2 Jul 2012 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Malcolm McMaster
Posts: 1428
Joined: 30 May 1999 12:01 am
Location: Beith Ayrshire Scotland
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Malcolm McMaster »

Donny commented about things he would like to see makers do--MSA do most off these-- plug in pickups, easy pedal bar fastening, easy to adjust pedal and levers, rounded edges on levers etc.They sound great but so do Mullen/Ritts/Zum/Justice/Williams etc, as Donny said would be good if these guys adopted a few of these features.
MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case.
User avatar
Lane Gray
Posts: 13684
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Topeka, KS
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Lane Gray »

Tommy's point on the fretboards rings a bell with me.
We currently have folks dropping serious money on a Mark Giles custom cabinet with gorgeous grain and pretty stain, and then the manufacturers slap a bigass slab o' plastic or aluminum on it.
My 1977 MSA lets you see the pretty neck: they silkscreened the fretboard onto the wood.
I shall investigate how much extra this will cost on my next guitar.

Is this 35 year old not prettier than a slab o' plastic, other than the bar dings?
Image
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
User avatar
Dale Kath
Posts: 135
Joined: 10 Jun 2012 8:48 am
Location: Michigan, USA
State/Province: Michigan
Country: United States

Rate brands

Post by Dale Kath »

And rating brands, has anyone had experience with those Excel PSG's made in Japan? I put my Fender student thru a Boss G-T3 and I must admit, it sounds like a real psg! Up here in the metro Detroit area, we have a couple of Guitar Centers, Motor City Guitar, and a lot of small shops and guess what - not one pedal steel in the lot! You all near the surrounding hub of Nashville have got it good. Not complaining,just saying as it is.
User avatar
Lane Gray
Posts: 13684
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Topeka, KS
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Lane Gray »

I've never heard a bad thing about Excel.
I used to believe that they were as pricy as a Sierra, but the folks at Scotty's tell me they actually come in competitive.
They refused to quote a price until I told them WHERE I want the levers (I want them in an off-standard location), so I can't make a request til I get home.
Mitsuo appears to make a wonderful guitar.
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
User avatar
Jack Stoner
Posts: 22147
Joined: 3 Dec 1999 1:01 am
Location: Kansas City, MO
State/Province: Kansas
Country: United States

Post by Jack Stoner »

There is no real way to rate brands. Everyone has their favorite brand and thus that is Number 1 to them.

Some rate them on esthetics, I look at the mechanics and how its built as the primary factor.

But this no way to "rate" pedal steel's.

Fender and Gibson are two of the highly regarded brands, but I would put my old 61 Chet Atkins Gretsch up there too.
ed packard
Posts: 2162
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Show Low AZ
State/Province: -
Country: United States

No opinions given, but I do have some.

Post by ed packard »

Here are 30+ PSGs...photos, measurments, materials, and
frequency response plus sustain.

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/ ... ?start=all

Here are photos of mostly "show" players of the last decade or so. See who played what. Why is another story, often it has to do with the "bene's" received.

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/ ... %20DECADE/
User avatar
Nick Reed
Posts: 4774
Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
Location: Russellville, KY USA
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Nick Reed »

I used to rant & rave about only one particular brandname of Steels, but here lately those Carter's are starting to look pretty good to me. :lol:
Brett Day
Posts: 5451
Joined: 17 Jun 2000 12:01 am
Location: Pickens, SC
State/Province: -
Country: United States

Post by Brett Day »

I play a Jackson(my favorite brand) but I love any steel guitar. Every steel guitar is special in some way. I've heard and seen so many great brands of steel guitars and they all look and sound great!
User avatar
Dale Hampton
Posts: 310
Joined: 21 Oct 2011 11:45 am
Location: Missouri, USA
State/Province: Missouri
Country: United States

Post by Dale Hampton »

I used to rant & rave about only one particular brandname of Steels, but here lately those Carter's are starting to look pretty good to me. Laughing
Qh No! Nick what has happened? :lol:
User avatar
James Quillian
Posts: 520
Joined: 22 Nov 2011 7:39 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
State/Province: Texas
Country: United States

Post by James Quillian »

Since I have been coming to this forum I don't remember anyone ever giving any steel guitar anything but rave reviews./

About a month ago I bought a used Fessenden D10 for a fair price. The guitar is sound mechanically. Its the only pedal steel I have ever owned.

I was told by people who claim to know that this model of Fessenden is an abolutely terrific instrument. I have found nothing to indicate that assemessment is incorrect.

But, every other pedal steel that was ever made is said to be a fine instrument.

Didn't anybody ever make a piece of junk?