PSG weight advice

Asa Brosius · Post by **Asa Brosius** » 29 Jun 2012 8:57 am

The 'back' story: I'm moving to Nova Scotia in the fall, from Vermont. I understand PSG's are even harder to come by there than here, and so rather than deal with international shipping, I'd like to pick up a D10 in the states while I'm still a resident. I've been playing an SD10 GFI for a few years, and recently parted with a D10 MSA- the former a little insubstantial to my taste, and the latter similar to several anvils. To the point: I'm looking for recommendations on a D10 closer to the GFI in weight, but with a little more heft for stability's sake. All thoughts appreciated.

Thanks,

Asa

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 29 Jun 2012 9:00 am

Williams D10. Gorgeous compact guitars. Play and sound good too. If you get the keyless model, even lighter and more compact. Very stable and solid guitars as well.

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 29 Jun 2012 9:08 am

Well, you are in Vermont, afterall: why not check out a Fessenden?

Asa Brosius · Post by **Asa Brosius** » 29 Jun 2012 9:27 am

Thanks Jerry- definitely on the list.

I hear you Dan- he's a hard guy to reach.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 29 Jun 2012 9:57 am

If you split your cases weight is not an issue.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 29 Jun 2012 9:57 am

If you split your cases weight is not an issue.

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 29 Jun 2012 10:31 am

I did the same thing....went from a Rains - built like a Mercedes, but heavy as one - to GFI, but never bonded with the GFI......then I tried Williams, actually made with beautiful wood instead of Mica, quite solid, but actually a tad lighter than the GFI.

They think about making them feel solid...e.g., on the S-10 (which is actually slightly wider than a normal S), they also angle the legs our a bit so that they hit the floor like on an SD-10, so you get that solid feel. I don't know what they do with a D-10, but you can be sure they thought about it.

Give Bill Rudolph a call, he'll be happy to chat about how the Willys are built...

Aaron Goldstein · Post by **Aaron Goldstein** » 29 Jun 2012 4:29 pm

For what it's worth, steel guitars are not terribly difficult to come by up here. Call Al Brisco at Steel Guitars of Canada, he carries a number of brands.

If you're ordering direct from manufacturer you will be subject to tax and duty at the border, but I don't think the amount you'd save would necessarily be enough to sway your tastes away from a brand you really desire. The dollars are awful close to par right now, too.

Good luck on the beautiful Canadian East coast! What brings you up there?

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 29 Jun 2012 4:51 pm

Kevin Hatton wrote:If you split your cases weight is not an issue.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Jun 2012 6:42 pm

What's the weight difference between the Willie and the Millie?
If the weight is your issue, Millennium might be the guitar for you, with that carbon fiber body

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 29 Jun 2012 6:49 pm

You can take off 20 pounds by splitting your cases.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Jun 2012 7:35 pm

True, but how much extra room? I can fit pedal steel, LTD amp, and Steeler's Choice seat with sidekick behind the seats in a 240Z.

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 29 Jun 2012 9:08 pm

Lane, this from the websites:

MSA Millennium D-10: =/-32 pounds (varies with exact configuration.

Williams D-10: 36 pounds (8+5)

I would not rush out and buy a Millie to save 4 pounds. I'd say play them both (if possible) and buy the one you like. What amazes me is how few builders provide this basic information about their standard instruments.

Cheers,

Doug

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Jun 2012 10:12 pm

I'd seen the weight on the millennium.
I missed the weight on the Williams.
Only a 4# penalty for that purty wood?
I have noticed the difference in my savings time. 80 weeks for the Williams, 120 weeks for the M3.
I think I am going to have to arrange for labor day weekend off...

PS: I suspect weight is less a crucial factor than a metaphorical thumb on the scale as one decides which of two or three guitars.
For its own sake, I don't see the weight ALONE being worth $500/lb. (my setup, M3 $7K, Williams $5K)

PPS: I did not find Jerry Fessenden hard to reach. I shot him an email and got his answer in under 48 hours.

Malcolm McMaster · Post by **Malcolm McMaster** » 29 Jun 2012 10:40 pm

Guys it is my understanding that MSA are no longer making the Milly due the rising cost of carbon.I believe they have used all the bodies they had in stock.If you look on forum believe Steve Issacs has a D10 Milly for sale.My own Milly ia an early one and I hope to get it over to MSA later in year to be refurbished to M3 standard.

Asa Brosius · Post by **Asa Brosius** » 30 Jun 2012 6:35 am

Thanks for the thoughts guys-

Regarding the split case- I understand that works well for many people, but I don't want another thing to carry.
Aaron- I'm headed home actually- I grew up in NS. I don't mean to imply Canada is a PSG wasteland- after nine years in the states I'm still dispelling Canadian 'wasteland' myths daily- but I have no doubt at this point that it's easier and cheaper to pick up a PSG stateside. Hope to see you live soon-I've been hearing good things.
Lane, unfortunately the new MSA's are nearly double my PSG budget at the moment-I'm in the used market. And to allay your suspicion, weight is a crucial factor.

Again, thanks for the thoughts,

Asa

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 30 Jun 2012 6:42 am

Here's a nice, pre-owned MSA Millenium D-10 much less costly than new. And it's in the USA now.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=207696

I have one of these and my back thanks me every day.
This one is 62 lbs including the Texas Wheeled Case, and that's a pretty heavy case, so if you used a lighter case, you could probably shave 5-10 lbs off of that, pretty good for a D10.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 30 Jun 2012 6:52 am

Asa, I do not know your current position, but I am currently having my bank set aside 60 dollars a week for a new guitar. It disappears before I even get a dime in my checking account.
( I miss the days when I bought my Zum. My now-ex and I earned 500 dollars a week more then we could spend. My Zum was an easy purchase). After converting my MSA classic to a LOADED BB6 U-12, I've decided I want a nice modern guitar, and I'm gonna make it happen.

A loaded SD-12 Milly is just 120 weeks away (if they're still made). Most manufacturers, at 5000 dollars, are 80 weeks out. You could probably swing something similar or a bit more modest.
If you'd rather go used ( I have bought 6 guitars in my life 3 of them were new 3 of them were used), I guess probably a GFI would be your best bet although I am not fond of the way they look. I don't see that many used Williams guitars coming for sale. you could haunt the forum asking all sellers how much the guitar weighs

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 30 Jun 2012 7:12 am

Hopefully, you'll find the one you want. Another plug for the Williams is the size. The keyless is only 28" long. Sacked up in the case, it's hard to believe there's a D10 in there. JMO.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 30 Jun 2012 10:54 am

Lane Gray wrote:What's the weight difference between the Willie and the Millie?
If the weight is your issue, Millennium might be the guitar for you, with that carbon fiber body

Unfortunately, the Millennium has been discontinued, but MSA still makes wonderful lightweight wood guitars.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 30 Jun 2012 11:12 am

It would be nice if they'd mention that fact on their site. The only hint of a problem is "call for delivery on Millennium guitars."

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 30 Jun 2012 11:15 am

Hellooo? There are used ones still available out there...

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 30 Jun 2012 11:45 am

True, Jim. And that's one schweet axe you linked to.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 1 Jul 2012 6:22 pm

How often are you going to fly with it ??? if your only making the one flight then it's not that big an issue, take the leg bag and pedal bar out of the case it will probably be fine ....
If you fly a lot like I do then I use a SKB Trap case and airline lightweight legs....and my D10 Zum's 9+9 come in at a gnats whisker over 23KG (50LB) and I never get clobbered for a overweight guitar ....(so far) :-}

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 2 Jul 2012 4:20 am

Paddy, it might not be flying. Some folks just want lighter gear to schlep about.