Franklins vs. Others And Tone

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Jun 2012 2:22 pm

Jim Cohen wrote:I sure don't plan to step into the middle of this one but have just a quick question for Chris: I wasn't aware that Buddy had recorded on a Carter; which album was that, or was it as a sideman on someone else's recording(s)?

Ask, and ye shall receive! Here's the answer, and a quote by Buddy, himself:

"I have two Legrande lll models, one of which I used on Gene Watson's last album. Just for the record, I used a Carter D-10 on Gene's Gospel album and for all practical purposes, I can't tell a dime's worth of difference, but what do I know?(2/17/02)"

I've posted this quote many times, but because it runs contrary to a lot of pre-conceived beliefs, it's quickly forgotten.

Speaks volumes, though.

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 20 Jun 2012 2:23 pm

Quentin...I totally agree with you on the demise of John Fabian. Bud and him used to assemble a great guitar in so little time...only because most of the parts were made at other premises to Bud's specifications. The prices were incredible too and just a 30 day wait for a brand new guitar. Jim and Chris, I may be wrong but I do believe that in the early days of the Carter brand, Bud Carter built a D-10 for Buddy. Weather he recorded with it I don't know. There is a kinda unsung hero called Ted Solesky originally from Texas, who will only play a Carter. Check him out on youtube. He's a good pal with Bud Carter, and also told me personally that the big "E" thinks "VERY" highly of Bud Carter. Those of you who watched the investiture of Bud into the hall of fame will remember the lovely letter written by Buddy Emmons to Bud Carter. I have played all the top brands over the years since I started in 1970. Push pulls...'buds, ZB etc...but now I just stay with my Carter uni. It does what I need...plays well and sounds good too.

Micky Byrne U.K.

Sho-Bud and Carter universals

www.micky-byrne.co.uk

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Jun 2012 2:26 pm

Thanks, Donny. Interesting quote.

Frank Freniere · Post by **Frank Freniere** » 20 Jun 2012 2:35 pm

So can chris come off double secret probation now?

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 20 Jun 2012 2:48 pm

nyaa nyaa...

thanks donny...i thought it was one trustworthy hinson or another who had said that!

ok..my 'time out' is over now. i can't be wrong every time.

....tough crowd here today...

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 20 Jun 2012 4:22 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJjfHYGhCcs

I found him Mickey.
Q

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 21 Jun 2012 2:22 am

This has veered off of the original subject so I'll add a comment.

Back when Buddy was endorsing Sierra's the one year at St Louis he played a Sierra, he had all his licks and you knew it was Buddy playing but he just didn't have "the sound". The next year, even though he was still endorsing Sierra, he was back playing his Emmons (the excuse given was the Sierra was on the Everly Bros Bus) and it was back to the familiar Buddy Emmons sound.

I played a 71 D-10 PP Emmons (Brand X as Sho-Bud called an Emmons). It had a great sound and I did a lot of recording with it as I was the staff steeler at Big K records in Kansas City, Mo. When I got my Franklin, the first time I recorded the engineer immediately noticed the difference and complemented me on the "improved" tone. But, the biggest difference I noticed was the mechanics and how easy it was to pedal compared to the PP Emmons and the positive knee levers - no slop.

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 21 Jun 2012 2:53 am

Both Carter and Franklin are great guitars. I would put Bud Carter and Paul Franklin Snr in the the same league, likewise their guitars. I have played both guitars and love them both. Bud Carter had his start, training and practice at MSA and his guitars are really MSA clones. Paul Franklin had his start, training and practice at Sho Bud and his guitar is really a Shobud clone. They are different as far as price goes - but as far as sound , and mechanics they are about the same. - just listen to Buddy Emmons on his album with his Carter. I don't believe that buddy Emmons ever recorded with a Franklin. Donny, correct me if I am wrong.

Here is a link to Buddy Emmons' Carter coped ant

http://www.buddyemmons.com/CarterE912.htm

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 Jun 2012 4:48 am

tbhenry wrote:...just listen to Buddy Emmons on his album with his Carter.

We learned above that he played a Carter on Gene Watson's gospel album but here you refer to Buddy playing one on "his" (own) album. Which album was that?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 21 Jun 2012 5:17 am

Simple. Buddy is the Chuck Norris of steel players: Gene's record became Buddy's once he laid down his tracks.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 21 Jun 2012 3:17 pm

tbhenry wrote:Paul Franklin had his start, training and practice at Sho Bud and his guitar is really a Shobud clone.

TB,

Did you know Dad built two Franklin guitars before he moved to Nashville.....And that years before he came to work for Sho-Bud he had already invented the return compensator? As a rule trainees don't usually innovate before being trained on the problems of mechanisms. He and Duane did build their reputations as quality craftsmen while at Sho-Bud with the top players in town and are forever grateful for that experience.

As to the implication of being a clone of the Sho-Bud, I'll list some major factors that are completely different from a Sho-Bud....

The cabinet size, Scale Length, Formica covering, The thickness of aluminum necks and the keyhead. The overall density of the fingers, the size of the axle, the mechanism, the pivot point on the scissors and the frictionless construction of the scissors.....They do not ever wear out like Sho-Buds were known to do..... A center pull on the rod pullers where Sho-Buds use a side connect. The Franklin mechanism does not have dividers between fingers like the Sho-Bud....The way the instrument is assembled and the mechanism connects to the body is different. The overall look is complete different from the Sho-Bud.....If I understand the word correctly, a "clone" is visually, cosmetically, compositionally and mechanically the same.

Paul

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 21 Jun 2012 4:17 pm

Thank you Paul for providing the facts, and also taking the time to post them. I am really impressed with your Dad's innovations even before he worked at sho bud. This forum is a great place to learn and I am still learning. Kind regards,

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 21 Jun 2012 4:19 pm

Jim - I meant Genre's gospel album

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 21 Jun 2012 5:20 pm

tbhenry wrote:Thank you Paul for providing the facts, and also taking the time to post them. I am really impressed with your Dad's innovations even before he worked at sho bud. This forum is a great place to learn and I am still learning. Kind regards,

No problem...I just felt a little clarification was in order....The same could also be said for Bud Carter, Jerry Fessenden, and Chuck Wright. IMO Sho-Bud and MSA were very wise to hire them.

Sadly because my father does not play he will probably never make it into the SGHOF.....Thanks for acknowledging Bud and Dad.

Paul

Ben Lawson · Post by **Ben Lawson** » 21 Jun 2012 5:33 pm

PF said

Sadly because my father does not play he will probably never make it into the SGHOF.....Thanks for acknowledging Bud and Dad.

I think there should be a place for Mr. Franklin in the S.G.H.O.F.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 Jun 2012 5:49 pm

Franklin wrote: Sadly because my father does not play he will probably never make it into the SGHOF.

Well, Tom Bradshaw was inducted for non-playing contributions, so a precedent has been set.

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 23 Jun 2012 2:02 am

Heh, Donny thanks for posting that Buddy Emmons quote. Thatis a real Mythbuster. stevet

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 23 Jun 2012 2:53 am

You all are right about the SGHOF comments - we play a unique instrument built from the minds, innovations and sweat of so many behind the scenes that made it possible for players to realize their artistic potential. Can you imagine if we all still played on Harmon Multichord patents!

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 23 Jun 2012 9:34 am

Bob says:

Chris,
I have owned and played several Carters and Franklins. Your opinion seems absurd to me. What are you basing your judgements about them both being flat and the same on ? After years of working with Carters I started playing Franklins and I found little in common between the two. The producers and artists I worked for noticed a big difference also. They are not in the same ballpark with each other.

Looks like Hoff has an opinion. What is it absurd about Chris' statement?

The producers and artists I worked for noticed a big difference also.

Hmmmm. Usually the producers know very little about how a steel should sound. They're too busy trying to drown the steel out.

They are not in the same ballpark with each other.

Says who? You? Franklin builds a superb guitar, as does as Carter.

You like what you like. That's fine. That's your opinion.

Coke and Pepsi.

Jim Cohen wrote:
I sure don't plan to step into the middle of this one but have just a quick question for Chris: I wasn't aware that Buddy had recorded on a Carter; which album was that, or was it as a sideman on someone else's recording(s)?

Ask, and ye shall receive! Here's the answer, and a quote by Buddy, himself:

"I have two Legrande lll models, one of which I used on Gene Watson's last album. Just for the record, I used a Carter D-10 on Gene's Gospel album and for all practical purposes, I can't tell a dime's worth of difference, but what do I know?(2/17/02)"

I've posted this quote many times, but because it runs contrary to a lot of pre-conceived beliefs, it's quickly forgotten.

Speaks volumes, though.

It lets us know where tone comes from........

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2012 10:42 am

Mishawaka?

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 23 Jun 2012 1:12 pm

Lane Gray wrote:Simple. Buddy is the Chuck Norris of steel players: Gene's record became Buddy's once he laid down his tracks.

And Curly Chalker was the Bruce Lee of steel players.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2012 1:19 pm

I actually think of Buddy as the Jimmy McGriff and Curly as the Jimmy Smith
(ISTR Buddy saying he did turn to McGriff for some licks, never asked Curly)

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 23 Jun 2012 4:06 pm

Lane Gray wrote:I actually think of Buddy as the Jimmy McGriff and Curly as the Jimmy Smith
(ISTR Buddy saying he did turn to McGriff for some licks, never asked Curly)

Curly played too far over every ones head.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2012 4:24 pm

So did Jimmy Smith, at least IMO.
Both Jimmy and Curly were capable of staying fully accessible, as well as getting out there: but as soon as they felt off the leash, they headed for places most of us couldn't quite follow.

Wayne Quinn · Post by **Wayne Quinn** » 23 Jun 2012 5:46 pm

Hey Quentin. real nice looking Carter,if it sounds as good as it looks .your of and running.and i'am betting it does.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Franklins vs. Others And Tone

Mythbusters

Re:

Re.

Nice Carter