Beginner question on strings 1 and 2

Steve Humes · Post by **Steve Humes** » 21 Jun 2012 1:05 am

Finally got my Stage One, and it's all tuned and I'm having a blast with it. Been practicing in anticipation on an 8 string lap steel strung in C6 high G. Not too difficult a transition to E9 until the 1st and 2nd strings come in to play. I welcome any simple enlightenment as to the purpose and use of this configuration. It seems to me that there is a very specific purpose. Thanks in advance!

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 21 Jun 2012 2:02 am

Quite a bit different with these two strings being availble than a tuning without them. The "D" string on top on the C6th tuning is similar.

The top two strings open up a lot of notes without having to move the bar to a different position, just as starters.

Then you have the open (no pedal) strings 1, 2, 5 combination - e.g. open that is a B chord, fret 1 C, etc.

The 2nd string lowered offers many possibilites as does raising the first string (a whole tone) and the second string (a half tone).

I would be lost without them.

Steve Humes · Post by **Steve Humes** » 21 Jun 2012 2:14 am

Thanks Jack. That helps. With the 2nd string being lower than the 3rd and the right knee levers actuating the 1st and 2nd, I was also wondering if this pair was used for specific licks or runs in conjunction with a corresponding bar position. Seems like an obvious use, but I'm not sure.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 21 Jun 2012 3:37 am

I use them a lot for melodic runs, especially in minor chords. My favorite position for minors is with the D# lever (G# minor at the nut). The chromatic strings give huge nice flavor, the F# on its own and the D# peeling away with the C# lever. (Since there has not yet emerged a consensus as to which lever is D and which is E, I call those two knees by their destination note).

You had asked something about the history of them: they're the newcomers. Strings 3-10 were the 8 string E9th. You think it's weird now? They made their debut as 9 and 10.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 21 Jun 2012 4:52 am

if you look closely at the E9 tuning, on fret 0 ( open position) you'll notice 2 chords
E w: the highest pitched string on 3
B w: the major 3rd on 2 & the 5th on 1

here's a basic major scale exercise in E :

1-------0--------3----5
2-------0--------3----5
3------------0-------------5----7----7B
4--0---------0-------------5----7----7
5--0

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 21 Jun 2012 5:17 am

Hi, Steve, while there are a lot of "hidden" usages and even tricks using the first two strings, a great place to start is by noting what scale tones they give you with your various chord positions/and or pedals.
For example the notes (2nd= D#, 1st= F#) with the "open tuning" or "no pedals" position gives you the major 7 and 2nd or 9th scale tones, and of course that would be at any fret where you used "no pedals".
With the A&B pedals down, referencing the A chord open, the notes now become the #4 and the 6 scale tones, this is why they are often used with the knee lever lowering the second string a half tone at that position, to move it from #4 (good banjo lick type sound) to 4, which fits much better with most major chords. At the intermediate A & F pedal (Or A pedal with knee lever lowering the E strings a half tone) position, referencing the open C# chord, they are the 2nd or 9th and the 4 notes of the scale, which fit nicely with both the C# major, and C# minor played with just the A pedal (at open position).
Try adding them to the chords at these positions as single notes and also two note harmonies. Lots and lots here... that's why they've stayed an integral part of the tuning all these years!

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 21 Jun 2012 1:26 pm

I use them a lot for ascending and descending single note runs. Sometimes letting the strings sustain or blocking them off.

Tony Russell · Post by **Tony Russell** » 22 Jun 2012 3:53 am

Steve, there are some good posts above already but here's something, for you to do, that assumes no prior knowledge. To get a feel of some uses of the "chromatics"- try this. Put the bar at any fret, let's say at five. Now pick strings in this order using thumb and one other (the second finger is popular) - 3; 1; 4; 2; 5 with pedal A; then let it ring and come off the pedal without picking again. You have a decending partial scale there. Now try playing the same scale on strings from 3 to 5 only, by moving the bar to different frets. It's slower and more tricky to get intonation right, yes? So, the "chromatic strings" can give you faster scales. Also (as said above) those two strings are available to add to chords found in the body of the tuning to achieve advanced harmonies without bar slants. Mess around with these notes and other uses will strike you too. Does that help? Tony.

Steve Humes · Post by **Steve Humes** » 22 Jun 2012 4:07 am

Tony, That does help, as all of the other responses. I spent a few months on an 8 string, so it is al coming together pretty well. I feel like this instrument will allow me to produce the sounds I hear in my head better than the others I have worked at playing.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 22 Jun 2012 4:12 am

Steve, I don't recall seeing you at one of our Florida Steel Guitar club jams. The next one will be in September and plan on coming up.

www.floridasteelguitarclub.com

Steve Humes · Post by **Steve Humes** » 22 Jun 2012 4:57 am

Jack,

I would love to attend at meeting. Lake Panosofkee is quite a haul for me on a workday, but maybe in the winter.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 22 Jun 2012 6:27 am

We get people from, Land O Lakes, Holiday, Sarasota, Orlando, Lakeland, Lake City, etc at the club jams.

I used to do a Tuesday show at Catfish Johnny's (where we have the steel jams) and we had regulars (every week) that would drive from Tampa (and one from Sebring).

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 22 Jun 2012 8:33 am

The chromatic scale is a musical scale with twelve pitches, each a semitone apart.

Are the strings one and two called the "chromatics" because they tend to make more "easily" available the notes that complete the chromatic scale?

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 22 Jun 2012 11:04 am

Ray Minich wrote:The chromatic scale is a musical scale with twelve pitches, each a semitone apart.

Are the strings one and two called the "chromatics" because they tend to make more "easily" available the notes that complete the chromatic scale?

I reckon not; more'n likely some ignernt good ol boy called 'em chromatic on account of he didn't have a dictionary.

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 22 Jun 2012 4:52 pm

I was looking at some Jimmy Day tabs and he used the #2 string quite often and makes some great sounding chords with it.

Donald Boyajian · Post by **Donald Boyajian** » 22 Jun 2012 8:55 pm

Hi Steve,

I'm a newbie as well. Beyond what everyone else has said (all great stuff), I'll mention the things that I've learned about the first at second strings in my short time.

No pedals position--2 is your major 7th. Lower is 1/2 step..dominant 7th (then it will be the same pitch as the 9th string), full step lower- 6th.

Pedals down position, the first string raised a 1/2 step is your dominant 7th (full step is a major 7th). A lot of times, in the pedals down position, if I'm using my second string, I'm lowering it a half step, otherwise, you have a flatted 5th.

Push your C pedal and play the 4th string. I now is the same pith at the 1st (F#)...I experiment with that.

5th string...push A pedal (B to C#). That is the same note as when you lower the 2nd string a full step.

Lower 4th string (E lever)---now it's the same pitch as the second string.

I don't know if that is helpful, but those things weren't readily obvious to me, and took a lot of playing around to realize. I think there are endless things to do with them...hope that's somewhat helpful (granted I'm very much new to this myself).

Best,
Don

EDIT: I just went back and read others' responses...sorry if some of this redundant.

Steve Humes · Post by **Steve Humes** » 23 Jun 2012 4:51 am

Donald,

Thanks! Everything helps. Not a lot of printed material to be found on those two strings. I am finding plenty of basic information, and plenty of stuff way over my head. I am looking for the "rubber meets the road" type of stuff that will get me to a level where I would want to play out with the thing. At least 2 hours a day practice is where I'm at now. Learning the different ways to make chords and where they are on the fret board is my current goal.

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 23 Jun 2012 5:51 am

Hey Steve, I've been doing the chord formation thing about a year and a half with the help of Mark van Allens E9th Chord Theory and Formation CD as a guide. IMHO you are on the right track with this practice way of thinking.Yesterday I was looking at some tab of some Jimmy Day melodies and saw that he was using the #2 string quite often in his chords, I tried these and was amazed how nice and useful they were. @ fret 10 strike 2 3 5 depressing pedals A&B, then release and strike 1 and resolve at 4 5 6 pedals up. This may be old hat to some but I found it simply wonderful that I could get what I needed in a small area without hunting for it. Hope this helps. Keep on Steelin'

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 23 Jun 2012 7:22 am

I have had several guitar players and other people sit down and try to play my steel. They cannot understand strings 1 and 2. Your understanding will open up on why the steel is tuned the way it is after a little time of practice and playing. It does make good sense to me why they are tuned the way they are. It just helps with different licks and for picking.

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 23 Jun 2012 7:31 am

Steve, Does you steel have the pulls for those two strings? My guitar raises 1 a whole tone while the same lever raises 2 a half tone. Those two pulls give you the same notes as 3&4 with the pedals up. Also, the most common pull on the second string is a half stop which lowers the string a half tone and then lower the whole tone when the lever is fully engaged. It just becomes a matter of learning when and wher to use them. Best wishes because you have picked an instrument that will give you many years of enjoyment.

Steve Humes · Post by **Steve Humes** » 23 Jun 2012 12:09 pm

Paul,

My RKL raises the 1st string F# to G, and the RKL lowers D#/Eb to D on the 2nd string. It will take some practice time to find what works for me.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2012 12:40 pm

There are a handful of uses for them currently rolling around my brain.
If I can find a cameraman on sunday or monday, I will go ahead and put some up on youtube.
If you lower the second string down to C#, There is a nifty move called "The Emmons Cross."
Listen to the third measure of the intro; if you don't yet know what a measure is, it starts around the 13th or 14th note he plays:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFj680v3xM8
You can play it if you only drop to D, but you'll need a reverse bar slant.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Jun 2012 3:06 pm

See my second post here for another use of those two:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=229071

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 6 Jul 2012 10:32 am

yea don't know if I'll go into all the uses.. bunch of other people already doing that but that 2nd string is the "money string"

A lot of the most interesting things come out from that string.. when you are just starting don't worry about it too much.. use it for the 5 chord as people have been saying or as the 9 on the minor chord as has been stated.

But just make sure as you keep getting used to the instrument that you don't abandon it... there is a lot of music in those strings up there!

Steve Humes · Post by **Steve Humes** » 6 Jul 2012 10:44 am

Josh,

Thanks for the reply. I will keep the 2nd string in play.