C6 tuning on fender student psg

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 10 Jun 2012 4:05 pm

I am at stage one in learning how to play psg. I bought a fender student psg and it should be arriving next week. This will probably me get laughed off the forum (I am a member) but can I tune the student to a c6 tuning? Or do I have to stick close to an e9 tuning?

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 10 Jun 2012 4:49 pm

Dale
The Fender student is very limited -- but the E9th on that limited set-up is a good learning tool -- I guess you want C6th -- how about B6th -- the one lever on the student lowers the E ( string 4 & 8 ) this makes the E9th a B6th tuning -- plays the same as C6th with out pedals

Maybe this will help you figure out where to start

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 10 Jun 2012 5:26 pm

Thanks Bob, I bought a ton of DVD instruction from georgeboards and wanted to put them to use. Might have to do a crash course and then switch to e9 or b6. I don't have a lot of time to learn psg, I am 61 after all!

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 10 Jun 2012 6:13 pm

Unless I'm mistaken, Georgeboards instruction material is for non-pedal. You can most certainly change the string gauges and tune that guitar to C6. Just don't use the pedals of knee lever(s).

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 10 Jun 2012 6:29 pm

Thanks, great relief! Yep, I bought a Mahalo steel and the pickup was so noisy, it was unplayable. Thought I should jump ahead and just get a pedal steel. The fender student is shipping with E9 tuning, but it sounds like I can just swap out the strings with a C6 set. Just trying to find out if the changer will handle the C6 tuning. Sounds like it will work. Cant wait to start learning!

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 11 Jun 2012 9:28 am

Why not just re-tune the strings to a C6th and forget
the pedals and gages, etc.?

Stay off the chormatic strings tho'.........

Use the string that is an "E" as your TOP C6th string. Then go E, C, A, G. etc.

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 11 Jun 2012 11:03 am

Thanks Ray, I wondered about the C6 tuning on my Fender Student as I have been looking at a new student GFI PSG that states it is only for E9 tuning. I reasoned that different tunings will take more or less tension, and maybe that could have an effect on the changer and the springs connected to it. I am starting to understand that I can really tune this Fender student to any tuning I desire, and the two basic tunings for PSG are C6 and E9.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 11 Jun 2012 11:48 am

Most student models have immobile bellcranks (welded on the shaft) or other features that make assembly faster and cheaper, so reassignment of pedals and knee levers is either impossible or a challenge (some say that a pull-release changer won't support modern stuff, but it can, it just takes work and cleverity).
You can tune your Fender student any way you like, but if you tune to C6th, the pedals won't do much useful stuff. Actually, the B pedal would be cool, and the A pedal would move the low C to D and the low (or only) G to A.

Bill Moore (RIP) · Post by **Bill Moore (RIP)** » 11 Jun 2012 1:15 pm

The Fender student model could be set up to C6th. Take a look at the pics Here: http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/185U-432.htm It uses the same parts as the Sho-Bud Pro 3 in the undercarriage. So the bellcranks can be moved around. The changer is pull/release, each string could be raised or lowered, if you used some barrel tuners, you could have more than one raise or lower on a string. I think someone has posted pics of one on the forum that was redone. Dale, where in Michigan are you located?

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 11 Jun 2012 2:16 pm

Thank you both for the great information! and I am in Clarkston Michigan

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 11 Jun 2012 4:17 pm

It's not easy to change the raise pedals used on a student model into lower pedals used by the C6th. And it's complicated by the fact that the two most important C6th pedals both raise and lower.

It's not the kind of self-help surgery I would recommend for a beginner.

Frankly, it's not something I would attempt myself unless I was really desperate and couldn't find a more suitable instrument to adapt.

Bob Tuttle · Post by **Bob Tuttle** » 11 Jun 2012 4:38 pm

If you're planning to play without the pedals, you can tune any steel guitar to any tuning if you use the proper string gauges.

Bill Moore (RIP) · Post by **Bill Moore (RIP)** » 11 Jun 2012 5:05 pm

I didn't mean to imply that it would be easy to change the Fender SM over to C6th, I said it would be possible. Maybe not worth the effort, but definitely possible. There have been a number of pull/release guitars, tuned to C6th. Early Marlens were pull/release, and they made a lot of D-10s; one neck tuned to C6th. Look at the pictures:

bellcranks, pull rods:

Changer:

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Jun 2012 5:07 pm

You haven't told us exactly why you don't want to learn E9th first.

Of course, any steel can be changed, modified, and "re-programmed", but it's not really a job for a beginner. Modifications take time and some skill, and also possibly extra investment, investment that you will likely never recoup when you decide to trade up or sell your instrument.

The caveat here is "Buy what you want", and not something that you think can be, somehow, made into what you want.

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 11 Jun 2012 5:40 pm

Well, Bob and Bob, and all, I am thinking now I should keep the E9 tuning, I really want to learn to use pedals. Now I can see why two necks are so desireable. It's just that when I was practicing on my lap guitar with 6 strings, the c6 tuning seemed easier to grasp then the E9. Glad this forum exists, as I found ONE psg for sale in the Detroit metro area where I live. You just don't see them around here and ...no one to answer questions about psg's.

Ray McCarthy · Post by **Ray McCarthy** » 12 Jun 2012 2:02 am

I started on a Fender student model--played it for a good 10 years or so. When I got it the knee lever lowered the 4th (E) string and either raised the 1st or lowered the 2nd. I found it easy to change it so that it lowered the 8th as well as the 4th, and it was much more useful for playing 6ths chords (A&B pedals down, or knee lever over) and 7th chords (B pedal down and knee lever over). Although I can't remember at this point just how I made that change, I know it seemed very easy at the time.
I learned a lot and had a great time ( and lots of frustration) with that guitar.
The Winnie Winston book came with the guitar--highly recomended.
Good luck on your new adventure, Dale

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 12 Jun 2012 5:22 am

Donny - main reason I wanted to keep C6 tuning is I bought instructional DVD's in that tuning. 12 of em'! I guess i will just chalk that up to added expense. I enjoy recording and want to add the flavor of a PSG to some of the songs. Plus it is a fascinating but complicated instrument. Bill- thanks for the pictures! they help immensely. Ray- the fact you played your FSM for 10 years gives me confidence that I did not make a rash decision in buying this Fender.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 12 Jun 2012 8:21 am

Dale, with the knee lever that lowers both E strings, you have a B6th tuning. It's the same as C6, but tuned one fret lower. All you have to do with those courses is add 1 to the fret number. Here are the C6th notes at the first fret, with the knee lever engaged:
[tab]Lap steel C6th notes at 1st fret on E9th, with E lever engaged

1
2
3
4 __E__
5 __C__
6 __A__
7 __G__
8 __E__
9
10 _C__ [/tab]
As you can see, the 6-string C6th tuning is all there on the low strings. You just have to remember to skip the 9th string, and play one fret higher than the instructional material.

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 12 Jun 2012 10:44 am

I see now Bob, thanks! I won't have to discard all of the instructional videos now. Figure i will have a sore knee holding that lever in?? I really appreciate the info! and B6 - C6 one note a part? of course! I am starting to get it.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 12 Jun 2012 11:33 am

Dale, instead of holding the knee lever in all you have to do is tune the 4th and 8th strings down to D# (Eb) and then play the C tuning at the 1st fret. Then if you wanted to work on some E9th stuff you could tune 'em back to E..........JH in Va.

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 27 Jun 2012 5:14 am

I went ahead and changed the lever/pedal assignments and now the knee lever lowers both the 4th and 8th E strings. It was not too difficult. I left the third pedal rod in the finger tho on the 4th string. Does anyone know if I can lower and raise one string using a pedal and knee lever? Or is it an (either or situation) with the Fender Student Model?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 27 Jun 2012 7:25 am

The guitar is basically a Sho-Bud Maverick with some Fender parts, right? The type of mechanism is known as pull-release. To raise and lower a string requires some extra parts and ingenuity. The changer finger has to be held in the center position somehow.

When I played a Marlen pull-release, I just used the second string to get that note. It seems to me that the raise on the 4th string is more important than the lower.
[tab]Lap steel C6th notes at 1st fret on E9th,
with E lever engaged, using 2nd string for high E

1
2 __E__
3
4
5 __C__
6 __A__
7 __G__
8 __E__ <-- knee lever
9
10 _C__ [/tab]

Dale Kath · Post by **Dale Kath** » 27 Jun 2012 8:13 am

yes Bob, it is basically the same as a ShoBud Maverick. Bill Moore posted pictures to this thread (above) that show the underside of the same model guitar that I own. The pics, show the exact setup I had (before I changed the lever to push the 4 and 8. You can see the different holes in fingers, allowing rods from the lever and pedal system at the same time. But, even tho you can have rods inserted this way, can you still get a pull or push on the same string?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 27 Jun 2012 8:51 am

To do that, you need to devise a way to hold the changer finger in the center position, where it can move in both directions. The stock parts don't allow that, but I know that some people have modified their guitars to make it work. Maybe one of them will chime in.

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