First Gen. of Fender Deluxe, Dual Pro. & Custom Steels..

[John Hanusch]

Per my post over in 'wanted to buy', here's a little info.
This guitar is one of the first batch of Deluxe, Dual Professional and Custom family of guitars. Per exchanges with Jody Carver (and his info from Don Randell) back in 2003, he surmised there were about 55 or so (total of all variations) made in the 1947-48 time frame. They had the rectangular ‘BoxCar’ pickups and Roman Numeral fret boards. As most already know, no exact serial number/inventory records are known to exist and they weren’t chronologically sequential. Below are my pics & others as noted & the anecdotal info is from searches on this Forum.
(ref http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/003692.html)
My guitar has no leg sockets. They were an option.




and has a unique ‘well’ tag...


(Also, there was a pic & reference that some of these early three-neck Customs also had this same “Dual Professional” tag.)

Has a ‘Big D’ serial number...


Here’s a pic of the Princeton lap steel with RN frets...


And lastly a pic of the late Rick Alexander’s Dual Professional...


Most were the darker (walnut?) wood & the lighter/blonde ones (optional cost) were either ash or swamp ash.
Again, this was the info I found from searches on this Forum & may not be accurate – just my musings & understanding at this point in time.

Bottomline, I would like to secure a pair of these RN fret boards for my early Dual Pro.

Thank you to b0b & all the supporters/contributors of this Forum.
Regards, John Hanusch

[Wayne D. Clark]

John, purchased one in the spring of 1953 at a music store while we were being refitted at the naval ship yards north of Frisco. $250.00 had to borrow the money from an uncle, the Navy didn't pay much back then. I SOLD IT 30 YEARS LATER FOR $250.00. BIG MISTAKE Wish I had it today.

Wayne
MELBERT 8 CONSOLE
PEAVY 110
GOODRICH PEDAL

[John Bushouse]

I have two 1947-ish lap steels (I haven't checked the serial numbers): a Deluxe and a Deluxe organ button model. The organ button model has a fancier edge routing on the body, plus a "boo-wah" button. They both sound absolutely fantastic. I had the Deluxe pickup rewound by Mojotone because the bobbin had collapsed.

[Clyde Mattocks]

John, thanks. I love this old stuff. I have a single, double and a triple Professional. There's nothing that compares to their sound.

[Mark Moseley]

I have had or nearly 40 years a dual professional that looks exactly like the one pictures as Rick's. (got it for $60). A man at the Dallas show saw mine and said he worked for Fender and built that model and called it a 1949; year I was born! The pickups have long pooped on it and have been replaced with non originals now. The serial number on the plug in plate is D543. Not sure what that means though. There is no other number on it anywhere that I can find, even under the tuning plates etcs.

[John Dahms]

What I expect is that the "D" numbers (probably for "Dual Professional")were stamped on Dual Pros for a time before they went to only numbers.
Mine is D310 with 304705 pot codes (Stackpole made 5th week 1947). Mine did not get fitted for the then optional legs so it is really a table steel or maybe a "I have no blood left in my legs" lap steel. It is quite a block of ash.
Or, it might be that the serial sequence was going to be - A for Princeton, B for Deluxe , C for organ button (although it was not used that I have ever seen), D for Dual Pro, etc but that's just a guess.

[Bill Quinn]

I also have a Dual with a "D" number and the "Dual Professional" metal logo plate. It is Walnut and the wood has a wonderful patina. Also with a 1947 pot code, no leg sockets and no front decal. In the photo one neck has only 6 strings but the tuners do all work. I have also noticed some of these early Duals, for whatever reason, have tuners with a wider bar down the middle than others.

[John Hanusch]

Bill - that's an absolutely beautiful guitar - if you ever.... nah, you won't.
Maybe the wider tuner pan pieces was for addl weight so both legs would equally num.
And, so- while I'm here, shamelessly plead my need for a pair of those Roman Numeral fret boards. Thank you, John H.

[Ben Elder]

Still looking for where I stashed my early Dual Pro (boxcars; black Roman numeral fretboard; D###; repainted black), but here is my Custom, presumably 1949-50. No pencil markings or remaining original pots but serial number is T115. Interesting transitional guitar: Roman numeral fretboard but trapezoid pickups. Finish is original and there is no Fender decal on the front.

[John Dahms]

Ben, thanks for the heads up about Custom models (3x8) having T serial numbers. I thought I had seen that but had no records of it for proof. That means the D series was for dual or double and T was used early on for triple necks. And yes at first there were no front Fender decal logos.
... as we slowly fill in the blank spots in Fender history...

[Ben Elder]

I wondered if Fender, as a fledgling company trying to enhance its profile, might have started each digit series with 101...102...but I've since seen a lot of D's (and A's and B's?) that are two digits, so by extension, T115 is the 115th one. I'd love to see how a really early boxcar Custom (as I've seen Leon McAuliffe pictured with) is numbered...if at all.

[John Dahms]

Well we know that that Fender (and others) had started some series with 0100 instead of 001 but there is more to it than that.
Remember, once they started using serial number stamped plates they would grab them from a bin and so they weren't necessarily used in order. Having said that though on such a limited run model it would not have been very hard to keep it straight at least at first so maybe they could have been consecutively numbered early on.
Also, the Princeton and Deluxes were hand stamped in the wood at first before they used numbered plates. It would be rediculous to think that was not done sequentially and that can be proven with features. For instance I have Princeton # A14 and it has features consistant with K&F guitars not seen on Princeton guitars a few dozen numbers later.

[John Hanusch]

...and later years even less rhyme/reason.
Have a '52 Dual Pro w/ "TAdeo G, 1-9-52" under tuner, Serial# 1663.
Then there's a Custom w/ "Tadeo, 10-13-52" under tuner, serial# 9310.
WOW! 10 months & over 7500 'units'?? Could they have included all of there products from their serial# list.
Would be intereasting to find a 'Txxx' & a 'Dxxx' with the same xxx.

Ben, that is indeed a 'crossover' Custom- neat, also,you mentioned

...but I've since seen a lot of D's (and A's and B's?) that are two digits, so by extension, T115 is the 115th one...

- my question-were any of these two digit serial#'s on Dual Pros or Customs?
Thanks... John H.

[Ben Elder]

Here's that Dual Professional with boxcars:




Repainted black (over worn original blond apparently). Serial number D469, Fender name plate says Fullerton not "Dual Professional" like the earlier brown-fretboard examples. Again, note no leg sockets. I don't think I saw any date markings, but might have despaired at trying, given the black paint. That case may or may not be original (although it is some Fender's original case.)

Now to correct Goober and Jethro's out-of-phase re-wiring...

[John Hanusch]

My sincere thanks & appreciation to Mr. Bill Quinn for facilitating my acquisition of these correct fret boards for this guitar.




Maybe it's been noted before, but sometimes my memory... the actual scale length with these fret boards is right at 22-5/8", not 22-1/2" as commonly referred to. I'm not a musician, per se, so maybe I'm just naive here, but to have the 12th fret right at the middle between string contact points on nut & bridge - I had to move pickups/bridge asm. to the far tail position. The head end of fret boards are up against the tuner pans.
Anyway, it all works and sounds great to me.
Again, thanks to all for help in this project... John H.

[Oliver James]

Here is my Dual Pro D275. I had one pickup rewound and the electronics cleaned up here at Top Gear, San Diego. Not many shops have rewinding machines, at least down here. This is a legless model (thanks to those that helped me determine that) with makeshift flanges, someone installed years ago. It's a sweet machine.

[John Bushouse]

FYI, I am selling my "Organ Button" model, listed in the classifieds.

[Chris Scruggs]

Keep in mind that the earliest Roman Numeral fretboards were brown and the later ones were black.

If you ever measure early Fender fingerboards you'll notice discrepancies in the intonation of the fret markers, even once they moved to the more popular "arrowhead" design. It seems they undershot the earliest fretmarkers a little farther to the left of where they ended up by later in the early/mid fifties.

However, this might have corresponded with the lower action of the earlier keyheads (the later keyheads had higher nuts than the earlier ones) so maybe the early keyheads are in tune with the slightly shorter scale fretboards.

I used to own Dual Professional serial number D50. It was walnut with brown fretboards. It had no Fender badge in the middle section between necks nor did it have the tack holes for the badge.

Andy Gibson used to own a three neck Custom, walnut color with black fingerboards and no serial number at all. I would assume Leon's triple was an extremely early Custom and probably had no serial number, too.

Buddy Emmons triple was (I believe) a Trapezoid pickup guitar with Roman Numeral Fretboards. A transition model of sorts.

[Kirk Eipper]

I have Deluxe serial #B230 so is that the correct designation for the Deluxe model?

[Chris Scruggs]

Funny, I have never seen a Deluxe from this era of Fenders. Only Dual Pros, Customs and assorted six string lap steels.

Where is it stamped? My '50-'51 Deluxe is stamped 140 in the tuner pan cavity.

[John Hanusch]

Thanks for the input, Kirk. To possibly give you a little more history about your guitar, could you post some pics? Close-ups of tuner pan area & serial# would be nice, also.
Thanks, John H.

[Will Carter]

Well we know that that Fender (and others) had started some series with 0100 instead of 001 but there is more to it than that.
Remember, once they started using serial number stamped plates they would grab them from a bin and so they weren't necessarily used in order. Having said that though on such a limited run model it would not have been very hard to keep it straight at least at first so maybe they could have been consecutively numbered early on.
Also, the Princeton and Deluxes were hand stamped in the wood at first before they used numbered plates. It would be rediculous to think that was not done sequentially and that can be proven with features. For instance I have Princeton # A14 and it has features consistant with K&F guitars not seen on Princeton guitars a few dozen numbers later.

Do you think that was the 14th Fender plated Princeton Lap Steel?

Does the potentiometer have any markings?

I’m trying to date an old Princeton as well. One with no serial number stamped plate.

[Joe A. Roberts]

In case someone hasn’t seen this cool pic of Vance Terry and his mother:

[Rick Aiello]

Got this from one of my chemistry students in the '80s for $50 ... sight unseen. His mom wanted it out of the garage

Someone must have switched a trap for a boxcar ... I doubt it left the factory like this

I just made 3D prints for both bobbins and wound them ... the 7th and 8th strings should be here any day now

[Erv Niehaus]

With the holes in the key heads, it looks like that guitar maybe had pedals on it at one time. Do you have a picture of the bottom?
Thanks,
Erv