Looking for advice for upgrading

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 8 Mar 2012 1:00 pm

Hi All

I've been lurking on the forums for quite a while, learning a lot. Now I have a question for the collected wisdom of the group...

I am ready to upgrade from my ShoBud Maverick to a "real" steel. Bear in mind, I have never played another steel aside from my Maverick.

I want S-10 or SD-10, E9, 4&3. Looking to spend $1500 or a bit more. Right now I'm considering:

- A new GFI Expo from Billy Cooper(I hope it's alright to name names)

- A used GFI Expo from the classifieds on this forum

- A used Dekley, ShoBud, or Sierra from Jim Palenscar

- A VERY used ShoBud Pro I from a local store(It has a non-Emmons tuning/copedent, 4&4, so I'm a bit put off by that)

All guitars are within a couple hundred dollars($1500 - $1800) after shipping(I live in New Hampshire)

Still reading? I'm going to be driving from Florida to Boston in early April, and plan to visit Cooper's in VA, so I would save shipping that way.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Al

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 8 Mar 2012 1:28 pm

Al, there's a really nice looking Carter that's just been put in the For Sale section.

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 8 Mar 2012 1:39 pm

Roger Crawford wrote:Al, there's a really nice looking Carter that's just been put in the For Sale section.

I'm not seeing that, or do you mean the D-10?

Mike Schwartzman · Post by **Mike Schwartzman** » 8 Mar 2012 2:40 pm

If you are planning on stopping at Billy Coopers place, there is a lot of advantage to selecting your next guitar during your visit.

You'll have the opportunity to try out any number of new or used guitars. You can compare and contrast to see what feels ands sounds good to you. Billy and Wanda are very helpful.

As for the GFI Expo...I sat and played my buddy's Expo a couple of months ago. It was 3 and 5. Billy had added a 5th knee lever at one of our visits to the shop. I played it for about 2 hrs. It played and sounded very good to me, but I suggest sitting down at a few (or a few dozen

guitars) at Billy's place since you're headed there anyway.

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 8 Mar 2012 2:51 pm

Mike Schwartzman wrote:but I suggest sitting down at a few (or a few dozen guitars) at Billy's place since you're headed there anyway.

That's good advice, thanks. In fact, although I'll be on a tight schedule, I hope to be able to take a lesson while I'm there.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 8 Mar 2012 4:24 pm

My 2 cents, you may want to stay away from a very used instrument from a non steel guitar mechanic as you could be running into a mechanical nightmare. I have many steels and although the Sierra may not have the emmons or Shobud sound but the Sierra has a number of options for pickups and if you get it from a guy like Jim Pali it will be mechanically sound.

Maybe that's 3 cents worth of info......

Lenny

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 8 Mar 2012 5:07 pm

Len Amaral wrote: Maybe that's 3 cents worth of info......

Lenny

And I thank you for it!

I'll probably stay away for anything real used, unless it's from a reputable source. The thing is, I like the old stuff that has a bit of history, and maybe a bit more character.

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 8 Mar 2012 5:10 pm

Len, I see you're from MA. Do you know of any steels in New England? I know the store in Northhampton has a GFI student model, but that's all I'm aware of.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 8 Mar 2012 5:24 pm

Hi Al:

There are no steel guitar stores in Mass that I know of.....But Tommy Cass in Baldwinville, MA is a master steel guitar mechanic that specializes in Emmons guitars and may have a steel for sale. Tommy is a great player and all around nice guy. I wish he lived closer to me......

Lenny

James Mudge · Post by **James Mudge** » 8 Mar 2012 9:05 pm

Al, I sent you a PM. Check your inbox.

Jim Mudge

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 9 Mar 2012 5:43 am

I'd put my $$$ on Billy Cooper,great selection & a nice guy,(I've never met Billy but have communicated with him in Ph. conv. & email)He'll treat you right.

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 9 Mar 2012 5:53 am

Al, you owe it to yourself to consider a Pro-Lite SD-10 by Fred Justice. Here's a link:

http://www.fredjusticemusic.com/id19.html

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 10 Mar 2012 9:09 am

Thanks to everyone who responded. I got a great offer from a forumite who lives the next town over to try out his steels. That will be very valuable, since as I said, I've only played my Maverick.

The Justice guitars look real nice, but a little bit out of my price range. Right now, I'm leaning towards(in no particular order):

BMI
ETS
GFI

One question- how important/useful is the 5th lever?

I'm watching the classifieds here, and I'm still open to any advice and suggestions... thanks again
Al

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 10 Mar 2012 3:03 pm

I don't use the 5th lever most commonly used to lower the 5th string B to Bd extesively on the E9th side of my 12 string UNI. But on the B6th side of the tuning I use it much more. I'm sure other players use
this lever more often.

If you find a steel that touches your heart and inspires you and does not have the 5th lever, it can always be added later by a qualified steel mechanic so don't let that option be a deal breaker.

Thant's my 4 cents worth....

Lenny

Rick Contino · Post by **Rick Contino** » 10 Mar 2012 3:23 pm

Al,

Looks like I may be playing devils advocate here, but I noticed that you said you like older things with a bit more character. If that's the case and you are mechanically inclined or willing to learn you should go for an the/a Shobud. They are the real deal steel IMHO. Even if a Shobud needs a little work under the hood it is good to do the work and learn how your instrument works. Getting something older will give you that benefit (or pain in the neck, depending on your perspective) along with the added benefit of having something with character.

By all means, go check out the GFI at Billy Coopers. To me a GFI is the polar opposite of an old Shobud: zero character, but light and ready to play.

It also comes down to what kind of sound you're going for. I love old country and swing and the sound of the steel in those recordings are what I aspire to in my playing 90% of the time. I think a GFI will give you more of a modern steel sound.

Finally, go used. You can get much more for your money.

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 10 Mar 2012 4:04 pm

Rick Contino wrote:Al,

Looks like I may be playing devils advocate here, but I noticed that you said you like older things with a bit more character. If that's the case and you are mechanically inclined or willing to learn you should go for an the/a Shobud. They are the real deal steel IMHO.

Wow Rick, you really like to shake things up!

Actually, I really like your thinking. I am inspired by the "old school" steel sound and players, and I am mechanically inclined. So I'm re-thinking things now.

If not a Shobud, what about a Dekley, MSA, other brand recommendations?

Len, thanks for the input about the 5th lever. I guess I just need to find the guitar that moves me and not worry about things that can be fixed after the fact

Al

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 10 Mar 2012 4:13 pm

Al
A Sho~Bud from Jim Palenscar would be in the best shape it could be in, short of an entirely new undercarriage. One of the benefits from buying used from a dealer is that you're purchasing from an experienced player/mechanic who has a reputation to stand behind.

Not that Billy Cooper isn't the same type of dealer; he is. But Jim's the one with the Sho~Bud, right?

Sho~Buds have a lot of character and mojo, no lie. However, avoid the one from the local store. Too much to go wrong for a neophyte steel player.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 10 Mar 2012 4:15 pm

Hey Al:

Hollis, NH is 80 miles from Rehoboth and you are welcome to visit my studio and tinker with my Zum, Mullen G2, Sierra and Jackson Commemerative models and hear the difference. All my guitars are 12 string Uni but the A&B pedals are the same as a 10 string E9. I also have a Carter at my summer place about 1/2 hour away and lunch on me if you are interested.

Always looking to meet new steelers,

Lenny

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 10 Mar 2012 4:17 pm

Dekley and MSA guitars are built like battleships.. These steels are absolutely bulletproof.. they don't break or wear out, period... I don't have anything to sell, but if you would like to talk I can give you some good insight as to which steels offer the best value for the dollar, and where to buy. $1500 can get you a good steel and a nice steel amp, if you know where to look, and waht to look for....... PM me, and I'll give you more advice than you would care to listen to... bob

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 10 Mar 2012 4:48 pm

Herb Steiner wrote:Sho~Buds have a lot of character and mojo, no lie. However, avoid the one from the local store. Too much to go wrong for a neophyte steel player.

That's my gut feeling too. And this particular guitar looks pretty weary, and is tuned to something other than E9 with a non-standard copedent.

Al

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 10 Mar 2012 4:51 pm

Len Amaral wrote:Hey Al:

Hollis, NH is 80 miles from Rehoboth and you are welcome to visit my studio and tinker with my Zum, Mullen G2, Sierra and Jackson Commemerative models and hear the difference. All my guitars are 12 string Uni but the A&B pedals are the same as a 10 string E9. I also have a Carter at my summer place about 1/2 hour away and lunch on me if you are interested.

Always looking to meet new steelers,

Lenny

Wow- that's an amazing offer, Len, thank you! I will definitely get back to you on that!

Joseph Meditz · Post by **Joseph Meditz** » 10 Mar 2012 10:36 pm

I see that the Sierra is no longer on your short list. Those guitars are righteous machines, in my opinion of a higher class than the others you are considering. Note that Len has a mighty fine stable of guitars one of which is a Sierra. Certainly take Len up on his offer. There is nothing like talking with a steeler one on one.

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 10 Mar 2012 11:20 pm

Al Carey wrote: and I am mechanically inclined.

Al

That is a very big plus and sense that's the case, have you considered the Emmons push/pull? They have tons of history, character, and the old school sound. (generally speaking). It is considered by some to have set the standard for steel guitar tone. But they are heavy (at least the D10's are) and they have more moving parts than an all pull. From what I've read and been told, if you buy a push/pull, your mechanical mind will come in handy.

But I've never owned one. There are those on the forum that know much more about these steels than I do. hopefully they will give you more information.

Mitch

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 11 Mar 2012 4:07 am

Joseph Meditz wrote:I see that the Sierra is no longer on your short list.
.

Maybe it's going back on the list

I'm not sure I can rule anything out at this point. So much to learn...

I've actually started to consider a d-10. I LOVE the C6 sound of country swing,etc, but I've been thinking that I should just concentrate on one neck. But long term...

Help! I'm drowning!

Al Carey · Post by **Al Carey** » 11 Mar 2012 4:11 am

Mitch Ellis wrote:
Al Carey wrote: and I am mechanically inclined.

Al
That is a very big plus and sense that's the case, have you considered the Emmons push/pull? Mitch

I haven't, mainly because all that I've seen are quite expensive.

In general, when looking at out-of-production steels, are parts available? Are there brands to stay away from for any reason?

Thanks,
Al