Single Neck C6 PSG ?

Charles Stange · Post by **Charles Stange** » 5 Mar 2012 5:28 pm

Curious to know if there are there any single neck C6 PSG's out there?, besides "Desert Rose" and interested to know if anyone has used left over parts from converted double neck Sho Bud to build a single neck C6? is this a viable idea? Thanks

Fred Justice · Post by **Fred Justice** » 5 Mar 2012 6:33 pm

Charles I can build you a new SD-10 with C6th on it.
I've done one for another fellow, here's a picture of it. Thanks for looking.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 5 Mar 2012 11:36 pm

I kn ow of at least two of them in Alaska, a Sho-Bud and an Excel...

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 6 Mar 2012 12:28 am

i bought an Emmons SD10 from a Fo'bro' that he converted to C6 for my client

my amico & fo'bro Ferdinando Ghidelli from Italy ordered & got an C6 Mullen SD10

Jim Hollingsworth · Post by **Jim Hollingsworth** » 6 Mar 2012 9:36 am

Gary Rittenberry is currently building me an S-10 guitar that is a C6 based "universal" that has my complete C6 setup (5 pedals & 5 knees) as well as "A &B" pedals for C6 tuning. I just saw photos of the cabinet and she's gonna be stunning! I will post more on the Forum when she's done.

Jim

Rick Contino · Post by **Rick Contino** » 6 Mar 2012 9:41 am

Jim, that's cool man. I've been toying with the idea of a C6-based universal. Would you mind sharing the copedant?

Cass Broadview · Post by **Cass Broadview** » 6 Mar 2012 9:57 am

George Redmon plays a single neck 12 string C6th steel guitar. He has both the "D" and "G" strings on top. He does Nasville type steel licks all the time, and plays a mean "Together Again" on C6th as well. I've heard him say it's not a universal tuning, i think he simply calls it an "Extended C6th". Hope i've contributed.

Jim Hollingsworth · Post by **Jim Hollingsworth** » 6 Mar 2012 1:56 pm

My challenge was to have a guitar that can fly (under 50 lbs) and would allow me to transition between my usual D-10 rig. So I settled on an S-10 with the A & B pedals for C6. It'll be 10 strings and will have the following:
P4 raises F(9) to A, A (8) to C, and C (7) to D
P5 thru 7 - standard C6
P8 - Lowers 9 & 10 (boowah)except not raising C to C#

LKL raises both C's to C# (equals F lever on E9
LKV is "reverse P6"
LKL lowers A to G#
RKL lowers C's to B - (equals E lever on E9)
RKR raises A's to Bb/B with half stop

I use my 9th pedal on my Rittenberry D-10 to raise the G string to A (equals A pedal on E9) and various levers to get raise the E's to F. I can get exact E9 sound right now, but having the A &B pedals where they sit on the E9 would make it a lot more natural & flowing. The only thing I really miss are the fast 2nd string licks. But hey! I'll have a single 10 string tuning that gives me the majority of my E9 licks and ALL my jazz & blues stuff. And it'll be light too!

Jim

Rick Contino · Post by **Rick Contino** » 6 Mar 2012 3:27 pm

Thanks for the info, Jim and good luck getting your new steel on the plane.

So it looks like for your E9 sounds you will keep pedal 4 down and

"A" pedal = Pedal 9
"B" pedal = LKV or Pedal 6

That would take some getting used to for me, especially not being able to use the volume pedal in in conjunction with Pedal 9.

Charles Stange · Post by **Charles Stange** » 6 Mar 2012 5:12 pm

Wow, all the positive responses! I primarily play C6 on my Pro II. It just comes down to needing a lighter rig. In searching around before coming here it seemed there was not much to choose from. I am much more optimistic now about ultimately getting a sweet guitar.

& Thank you Mr. Justice for the offer! I would love to get a chance to hear & play one of your guitars, and will definitely keep you in mind.

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · Post by **Archie Nicol R.I.P.** » 6 Mar 2012 5:54 pm

Cass, you should post more pics of George's undercarriage. No innuendo implied.

Hope you are all well.

Arch.

Jim Hollingsworth · Post by **Jim Hollingsworth** » 6 Mar 2012 7:15 pm

Rick, Pedal 4 is designed to give a diatonic scale for the lower strings & isn't related to the "E9" function. The "A & B pedals give you the E9 pulls. I use pedal 4 in my C6 playing to allow fast runs across the bass strings... with pedal down you have Am minor A,C,D,E,G,A or C major - C,D,E,G,A, C. Trying to keep P4 & the "A & B" pedals down would be MUCH too hard!

But it is a workable set up & the fullness of the sound is really nice too!

Jim

Cass Broadview · Post by **Cass Broadview** » 7 Mar 2012 7:54 am

Hi Archie, george posted photo's of his guitar on the old forum. I think they are still up. Cass

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 7 Mar 2012 11:21 am

I have a '67 R&B Shobud S-10. 6&2. It can be anything you want! When I sell it, I'll probably put it in C6th. Only other choice would be to get three levers, and ditch 3 pedals. May do that.

Rick Contino · Post by **Rick Contino** » 7 Mar 2012 1:15 pm

Ooooooh thats niiiiice!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 7 Mar 2012 1:40 pm

Thanks Rick! One of these days, I'll put up a thread on it's restoration.

Rick Winfield · Post by **Rick Winfield** » 8 Mar 2012 2:53 am

I converted my SD 10 E9th, to a C6. After a while I missed the E9th , so I changed it back. Now I miss the C6.
I guess, for me a D10, is the best of both worlds !
OR: 2 PSG's,one dedicated for each tuning
Rick

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 8 Mar 2012 4:17 am

Rick Winfield wrote:I converted my SD 10 E9th, to a C6. After a while I missed the E9th , so I changed it back. Now I miss the C6.
I guess, for me a D10, is the best of both worlds !
OR: 2 PSG's,one dedicated for each tuning
Rick

I'm kinda concerned about that as well, since I'm soon to convert an S10 I just got to C6. But I do have enough D10s to last me until eternity, so...

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 8 Mar 2012 9:28 am

Jim Hollingsworth wrote: A & B pedals for C6.
I use my 9th pedal on my Rittenberry D-10 to raise the G string to A (equals A pedal on E9) and various levers to get raise the E's to F. I can get exact E9 sound right now, but having the A &B pedals where they sit on the E9 would make it a lot more natural & flowing.

That's the Sneaky Pete approach to A&B pedals. Mashing A+B will sound different from E9 (not necessarily better or worse) because half-step and whole-step bends use very different string gauges and length (bar position). Your A&B pedals change C triad to F triad at open strings, whereas typical U-12 E9/B6 tuning would do that at fret 7.

The U-12 at fret 7 would also make more notes available at the same fret (high B, low Bflat, and 2 Ds) whereas on the Sneaky Pete approach there are no Ds, nor B nor Bflat at that fret (your open strings) without hitting a pedal or lever, and losing some of the notes in your triad. I think these "missing" notes limit the capabilities of the tuning, and are a major reason why Sneaky Pete's playing often sounded so klunky, and sounded like he had to work too hard to find the notes. Also the "A pedal" G to A duplicates the existing A string, which you may or may not like.

The advantage of the Sneaky Pete approach is that your playing will be more interesting because you won't copy the tired old cliches.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 8 Mar 2012 9:44 am

Back in 1976, Jr. Knight was the steel player at the Longhorn Ballroom in Dallas, and his guitar was tuned to 12-string Bb6. I'm not certain if the copedent was exactly like Reece's at the time, but I can guarantee that out in the audience you wouldn't be able to tell that it wasn't a standard E9 Diatonic tuning.

Which, of course, is testimony to Jr.'s lovely touch and talent on the PSG.

Jim Hollingsworth · Post by **Jim Hollingsworth** » 8 Mar 2012 9:45 am

Hi Earnest,
I agree with both of your points. I understand that I must needs be give up some of the notes that'd be available on standard E9 or U-12. But what I will gain is the ability to transition easily between my usual D-10 (fully loaded) and this S-10. And oddly enough, given the unusual music culture where I live I don't need to play the usual E9 radio stuff. For that reason I think the Sneaky Pete approach will be refreshing & fun for me. I play with a Hawaiian band (slack key & reggae) on one day and then with an "old country", swing,ragtime, blues singer then next. Why I even play a country gig on rare occasions! My favorite gig is with a world class guitar player/singer who alternates between soul/ R &B/ funk & jazz & Willie Nelson - not the usual E9 kinda gig. Necessity is indeed the mother of my invention!

Playing PSG entails lots of compromises and the tuning I am having on the new ax will enable me to work within the unique environment here .... and I'll be able to fly the guitar too! An absolute necessity to someone living on a rock in the middle of the ocean!

But as always, I definitely can appreciate your inputs. I thought a great deal about just getting an S-12 Uni but since I love the range of my D-10's this guitar felt like a way to slide between both worlds easily. The other option is to chuck the D-10's and just play a Uni - I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet.

Jim

Jim Hollingsworth · Post by **Jim Hollingsworth** » 8 Mar 2012 9:50 am

Late thought.... I am giving thought to the timber issue.... I may eventually move to D6 to keep the pitch between the two standard tunings (as Bob Lee does)but for now & for convenience I will run C6 to provide that uniformity between the D-10's and S-10 guitars.

Jim

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 9 Mar 2012 11:13 am

I think a single neck C6 is a cool idea. I'll be in the market for one soon. I would rather have two lighter weight steels than than one heavy D10, as long as they're both quality guitars. Besides, I rarely need both tunings on the same job.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 9 Mar 2012 2:42 pm

Fred Justice wrote:

Fred, that is one of the prettiest steels I've ever seen.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 9 Mar 2012 5:32 pm

Fairly, umm, purple, I'd say (!) I have been playing a dedicated "C6" S10 Carter for 12 years now. It's up to 5+5 these days. I have pretty much the usual stuff but some in different places. I play a high G, lower the 2nd a whole step and the 5th a whole step on different levers. And I'm lying about all that because I tune it to Bb (with a regular C string set) for tonal reasons only, not musical convenience. Any string can be the root, or at least it annoys me not to be able to work through a logjam that way.

But I came to it from a lefter field than most here, I'd just been beating my brains to a pulp trying to make slide guitar into something that could play kinds of music it was really, really resisting mightily. I thought it sanest to simply commit to either C6 or E9 to get to the stage of just playing music instead of "steel guitar." Still banging against that one.

C6 seemed to have a lot more shimmy to offer in the chord department, obviously the good ones can find "their stuff" in any old tuning.

The information on the forum was invaluable for me to decide what to do, though of course now I've become aware of how many of the innovators here are playing in an extended E9th, with no apparent limits on what they can do because of it. I like all kinds of musicians who can get loose in the juice, I've never been able to like or dislike music by genre (ummm, well... never mind).

The Steel Guitar Forum

Single Neck C6 PSG ?

Single Neck C6 PSG ?

Pedal 4

C6 vs E9

Re: C6 vs E9