Options Galore In Building Your Own Steel

[Per Berner]

If your'e talking vintage steel prices, it's all a question of supply and demand. There is no "right" or "wrong" price. An old guitar is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it at any given moment. That may or may not be the same as prices asked.

[Ross Shafer]

I've succesfully kept from being drawn in to Bill's silliness for a long time now, but I gotta jump in on this one. I've been involved in the making and/or manufacture of custom and production "things" (bicycles, motorcycles, guitars, mandolins, tube amps and much else....you can see the trouble I get myself into here: www.six-ninedesign.com). When I say "involved" in making all this stuff...I mean I've made a living at it for the last 35 years.

I can say uncategorically and with real world experience behind my statement, that pedal steel guitars are indeed a screaming deal at their current price levels.

Saying that the labor costs to make one are absurdly high....is absurd, misinformed and just plain BS.

[Per Berner]

Nice work, Ross!

[Bent Romnes]

Hey guys, I think the way to handle silliness like this is just to ignore it to death. How about it?

[John Allison]

Though I think it risks lending credibility to a preposterous proposition, I'll add comment on the idea of "absurd labor costs"...

I run a small business that manufactures primarily acoustic guitars. We also produce electric guitars and console non-pedal steel guitars and offer an instrument repair service. I employ 4 guys in the shop as well as an office person. In addition to having my hands on the product and supervising all aspects to make sure quality remains the highest possible, it's a full time job for me to be sure that work is coming in, money's coming in, overhead is covered and everybody is being paid a good wage for their skilled labor.

Labor is people and I have to take care of the people who make my business work. I can tell you that there have been plenty of times that I've gone without pay in order to make sure that payroll is covered.

Perhaps Mr. Hankey would like to see skilled and talented workers exploited and paid the tiniest amount possible. Maybe he cares to explain to my hard-working crew how "absurd" their wages are.

And for the record, Bill, I appreciate your DIY attitude...I wouldn't be involved in the career that's enriched the last 30 years of my life if I hadn't been interested in making my own things, especially instruments that facilitated my passion for playing music. Go ahead and produce your dream guitar...just keep your goofy (and frankly, somewhat insulting) economic ideas to yourself.

[Tony Williamson]

if i were building, i'd make the changer and knees and bellcranks out of good potmetal to save money...oh wait, that's what we're all cussin about today....

[Bill Hankey]

To those who build,


Veterans of hard times would be leery of anyone who quits an runs when the going gets rough. I measure a man by how well he deals with intractable mechanical problems that most would walk away from. I can't envision you as a builder, falling into that category of people who take flight at the first hint of an unruly problem. If the shoe fits...

[Fred Glave]

I may get some grief for saying this, but....I enjoy Hankey's posts! They become quite entertaining. I think we all get drawn into the craziness, and it gets going pretty good.

[Bill Hankey]

John Allison,

It was the groups of underpaid workers who banded together and formed their ties with that Federation of Workers (Union Workers) to rectify low starvation wages for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week labors. I'm no spring chicken just out in the back yard scratching for a living. I'm no stranger to hard labor either. I know that hiring someone else to do jobs that were once your own is costly. It cuts into net profits, even to the point of going into debt to cover expenses.

[Bill Hankey]

John Allison,

It was the groups of underpaid workers who banded together and formed their ties with that Federation of Workers (Union Workers) to rectify low starvation wages for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week labors. I'm no spring chicken just out in the back yard scratching for a living. I'm no stranger to hard labor either. I know that hiring someone else to do jobs that were once your own is costly. It cuts into net profits, even to the point of going into debt to cover expenses.

[Ken Byng]

Ken, you don't actually expect Bill to respond to your comments and questions now do you?

One can only hope Stephen, but the hyperbole dries up when he has his back to the wall.

This is the most inane post that I have seen from him in years, and that is saying something. He has insulted a whole group of people who provide a product that, at the end of the day, we can choose whether we buy or not. No one holds a gun to the buyers heads, and if they think they are being ripped off they can simply decline the transaction. Thankfully that doesn't happen. It sounds like a rant from someone who we would describe over here as being skint.

[Bill Hankey]

Ken Byng,

I was taught to back away from things that rattle, much like a prairie chicken would do.

[Bill Hankey]

Per Berner,

Allow me to guess... you have a few collectibles stashed away.

[Ken Byng]

Yes Bill - but in this case you talk with fork tongue Why have you chosen to attack steel guitar manufacturers? Is it because you would like to buy a new guitar but don't have the required rupees?

[Bill Hankey]

Ken,

I'm not in the habit of "attacking" anyone. I've merely stressed factual information. If I should say it feels as though I'm getting robbed at the necessary amenities level.. foodstuffs, garage services, fueling stations, etc., I would be expressing my resentment for shutting out the little "guy". They have found ways to make it most difficult to provide a family with transportation.

[Ken Byng]

Bill
That is why your original posts on this thread were way out of character for you. You do not go in for personal attacks or abuse, and it was surprising that you should choose to vent your spleen on steel guitar manufacturers.

Building a steel guitar oneself is a great way to learn about close tolerant engineering and cabinetry. However, unless much of the work is outsourced, it would take a month of Sundays to get a final product together for the vast majority of us.

I will still maintain that a modern pedal steel is a good financial asset, as they will hold their value quite well. They are machined to very precise tolerances, and the lacquer finishes are far more robust that the old nitro lacquer. I know this as I have had the pleasure of visiting Jeff Surratt at his Show Pro factory.

We will have to agree to disagree.

[Bill Hankey]

Ken,

I appreciate your posts while regretting the thought of losing your responses due to some vague interpretations of my actual feelings as far as builders are concerned. In reality, my fascination for those who manufacture steel guitars is endless. Paul Bigsby is a great favorite for his fine work. Chet Atkins once defined the mischief-maker traits of "Shot" Jackson in a conversation during an interview. Imagine standing in his shop, not expecting any disturbance, and having a plate of steel dropped behind where you stand. Chet related the incident to me. And then there were the popular Sho-Bud steel guitars..

[Bill Hankey]

I was recently reminded by a friend that the late PAUL MANNING told him years ago, "Everything you need to build a steel guitar, can be bought at the hardware store." In fact he had built a steel guitar and played in several bands through the years. He had promised to show me some techniques used in playing by one of the foremost players of the business. We never got to that point, due to his illness. For some unknown reason, he kept his changer system covered under lock and key. His chord work was similar to that of Alvino Rey.

[Bill Hankey]

John Allison advised me to "Keep my goofy ideas to myself." I assumed that he may have heard or read about the "Upright Fretboard" that I created some time ago. Well, I slept on his frank comments for a couple of nights. Something inside me started to heat up. I've decided to go forward by creating the "BROW" fretboard located just along the first string of the steel guitar. Made from a select wood, it will include all of the usual positions of the obsolete standard fretboards. They will be clearly viewed at the nose of the bar. Then perhaps I'll demonstrate the ease and improved enjoyment of playing the pedal steel guitar.

[Johnny Cox]

I would like to see the pile of crap that you build with just stuff from your hardware store. Ridiculous rambling.

[Bill Hankey]

Johnny,

Paul Manning made that statement. That is, "Everything you need to build a pedal steel, can be bought at the hardware store." I know one thing that rings true.. they sell miles and miles of steel cable at the hardware store. I'm inclined to believe that Paul wasn't kidding by making such a claim. I have pictures of Paul playing his hardware store steel. A bit of workshop ingenuity and manual training might surprise the average skeptical individual.

[Chris Lucker]

Actually, I'm looking for the pedal steel guitar that is incontrovertibly complimentary to a player's particular style of playing.

Bill, it is incontrovertible that you mean complementary rather than complimentary.

I cannot even imagine how much it would cost to build a pedal steel guitar that is complimentary.

[Chris Lucker]

Johnny,

Paul Manning made that statement. That is, "Everything you need to build a pedal steel, can be bought at the hardware store." I know one thing that rings true.. they sell miles and miles of steel cable at the hardware store. I'm inclined to believe that Paul wasn't kidding by making such a claim. I have pictures of Paul playing his hardware store steel. A bit of workshop ingenuity and manual training might surprise the average skeptical individual.

You can buy everything you need to build a car at a hardware store too, so what is your point?

[Bill Hankey]

Chris,

I've known about the DIY method of solving difficult problems for more years than I care to remember. As for hardware stores and local scrap yards, they in fact do contain all the needed hardware to build just about anything mechanical. I could cringe when I see things that people throw away. Those little adjustments on speed bicycles make wonderful adjustments on musical instruments. Old typewriters have precision parts, far superior to anything in a steel guitar. The list of items thrown away includes everything from A to Z.

[Chris Lucker]

Chris,

Old typewriters have precision parts, far superior to anything in a steel guitar.

Or exactly the same parts.
For 100 bonus points, can you name the pedal steel that used typewriter bellcranks?