How much would you charge (if anything) for recording?

Chris Tweed · Post by **Chris Tweed** » 14 Feb 2012 1:18 am

Did that include cheese?

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 14 Feb 2012 10:01 am

of course!!

my point is there are very few opportunities for actual recording on a paul franklin, sonny garrish commercial market scale in most towns, but i'm not qualified . however, local music and recording can be fun and good for you. get whatever you can out of it. of course we all need money but there are other alternative benefits to be had.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 14 Feb 2012 1:13 pm

Thanks, Mike Daly, for that info - I wondered if the AFM had rethought the 'single song' market.

Back in London I was in studios all week long and it was the mainstay of my income. The rules then were very clear - whatever the then-current MU rate was paid for three hours studio time with a maximum of 20 minutes recorded material. There were no 'varying rates' for different classes of material. If one was asked to overdub one's own track then 125% was payable; that was to encourage the producer to book more actual players on a date rather than getting the guys already there to track stuff.

All this 'so much per song' stuff is new to me, but I imagine that things are very different today with the proliferation of home-recording - my experiences are from the days when one did the session, then sent an invoice in to whoever the 'big record comapny' was that was bankrolling the project. I still have my old invoice-books and it's interesting reading! Did I really make all that money? Where's it all gone???

I've lived in the USA now for fourteen years and have yet to even enter a studio, far less argue the toss about how much I'm going to be paid!

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 14 Feb 2012 1:41 pm

I'm one up on you Roger. I've been in the Sun Studio.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 14 Feb 2012 2:09 pm

Ah! I forgot that one, Ken - I didn't say that I'd never been a tourist!

Wally Moyers · Post by **Wally Moyers** » 14 Feb 2012 3:22 pm

chris ivey wrote:here's a song i like, recorded in a sacramento apt. i gave the best i could for an in n out burger and fries.

http://www.myspace.com/music/player?sid=71804553&ac=now

For an in n out burger I would have done it too.... Had one in L.A. last week! Good Stuff! Good job Chris..

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 14 Feb 2012 4:09 pm

Chris, how many steel players beside you live in Newfoundland?
I'm one of the few in Vermont and I get a recording gig a month as a result. I've never concluded it was because I'm great.
Hmmm.....big money = good music?

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 14 Feb 2012 4:55 pm

....or maybe as I heard somewhere: "Good Musicians Aren't Cheap, Cheap Musicians Aren't Good" or something along that line....

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 14 Feb 2012 6:51 pm

Jim Pitman wrote:Chris, how many steel players beside you live in Newfoundland?
I'm one of the few in Vermont and I get a recording gig a month as a result. I've never concluded it was because I'm great.
Hmmm.....big money = good music?

Yes it's the same here. I'm pretty much the guy who does steel for any recordings in the province. There's another guy whom I pass work to if I can't do it, but yes it's mostly me. I didn't mean to come across as saying I get decent session pay because i'm great, and I don't think I said anything to that effect. In the same breath, I wouldn't do it for peanuts either - even if I had stiff competition.

Not sure what your question at the end means. Please elaborate or I'm left to assume it's sarcastic like the rest of your post.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 14 Feb 2012 7:19 pm

There was someone I knew from my very earliest days as a pro - he went on to be a record producer who had some success.

When he learned that I'd been doing studio work, he got in touch and asked if I'd 'help him out' on a project that didn't 'have much of a budget'. As this implied - or so I thought - that he'd pay me 'properly' on any subsequent sessions I readily agreed.

Well, the next time it was the same story. The third time I said 'No... I'll do it for the proper rates.'

I'd thought of him as a pal, yet he never called me again! I was told that, when my name came up as a possibility for an upcoming tour, he immediately said - 'No - that guy's only about the money!'

That was a lesson learned. My fault, though, for falling for it the first (and second) time.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 14 Feb 2012 7:23 pm

Roger, you did the right thing. That's what separates the pros from the amateurs. Good example of an all-too-common scenario.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 14 Feb 2012 7:35 pm

Out here in NZ I get to do a fair amount of the steel calls in the studio ..I charge $100 a track - unless they have a big budget and they offer me more of course !

If I double on Dobro or guitar then it's a double fee.
I do not offer a lesser fee if the the budget is tight - if they can't afford my rate, then they are are more than welcome to hire someone else.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 14 Feb 2012 9:25 pm

Hey Chris, If you keep talking about all that money you make up in Newfoundland you might find some Austin guys showing up. I've watched all the "Trailer Park Boys" episodes and I tell you what, the Texas pickers would fit right in.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 15 Feb 2012 1:10 am

I'd thought of him as a pal, yet he never called me again! I was told that, when my name came up as a possibility for an upcoming tour, he immediately said - 'No - that guy's only about the money!'

And therein lies the ironic rub - ya' try to do someone a favor, and you get reminded that no good deed goes unpunished.

I've pretty much resolved that I'm not gonna do 'favors' by recording for free or cheap, unless it's a project in which I'm a stakeholder, like my own band where I have a say in the final product and a real stake in the outcome. My experience is that if one doesn't properly value one's own time and effort, it often gets treated cavalierly. Not exactly sure what quirk of human nature causes this, but it seems to be pretty widespread. My take, anyway.

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 15 Feb 2012 2:58 am

In the great Wrecking Crew documentary (I'm going off memory here, so I hope I get this right), Tommy Tedesco said there are four reasons to do a session: for the money, for the experience, for the connections, or for the fun of it. I think as a player you have to decide what your motivation is.

But there's nothing wrong with getting paid!

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 15 Feb 2012 6:04 am

Bob Hoffnar wrote:Hey Chris, If you keep talking about all that money you make up in Newfoundland you might find some Austin guys showing up. I've watched all the "Trailer Park Boys" episodes and I tell you what, the Texas pickers would fit right in.

Bob, I'd love to have a few more solid steel pickers living here! Problem is that no one stays very long because of the weather....it rains and snows for 8 of the 12 months. Ha. And we are on an island with the main city 11 hours' drive from the ferry that takes 6 hours to sail from Nova Scotia. The only other option is to fly in. Therefore, we have few people move here unless it's for business. But I do know several musicians who have moved here, and all are busy.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 15 Feb 2012 7:56 am

Dave Mudgett wrote:
I'd thought of him as a pal, yet he never called me again! I was told that, when my name came up as a possibility for an upcoming tour, he immediately said - 'No - that guy's only about the money!'
And therein lies the ironic rub - ya' try to do someone a favor, and you get reminded that no good deed goes unpunished.

I've pretty much resolved that I'm not gonna do 'favors' by recording for free or cheap, unless it's a project in which I'm a stakeholder, like my own band where I have a say in the final product and a real stake in the outcome. My experience is that if one doesn't properly value one's own time and effort, it often gets treated cavalierly. Not exactly sure what quirk of human nature causes this, but it seems to be pretty widespread. My take, anyway.

Hear,hear! I did a little thought experiment...
OK,so with everybody who wants music wanting it free,maybe I should hang out my shingle as a "no-cost" player.Since I'm all about the music and not about the money,do you suppose all around good guy Mike Mantey will rush right over with a nice new G2? Heck,I'll even slip him a couple of bux for gas!

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 15 Feb 2012 8:49 am

Mike Daly... Thanks for the numbers... They tell the story.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 15 Feb 2012 9:26 am

Bryan Daste wrote

In the great Wrecking Crew documentary (I'm going off memory here, so I hope I get this right), Tommy Tedesco said there are four reasons to do a session: for the money, for the experience, for the connections, or for the fun of it. I think as a player you have to decide what your motivation is.

But there's nothing wrong with getting paid!

I did this one for free. My motivation was I helped write it, and was hoping a big star might cover it and make me some$$ lol
http://soundcloud.com/larry-miller/talk ... our-memory

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 15 Feb 2012 9:40 am

Now who says there's no new classic country? I'd cover that in a bar in a minute.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 15 Feb 2012 10:32 am

Thanks Dave.

Mike Daly · Post by **Mike Daly** » 16 Feb 2012 7:54 am

To all who are interested in the actual numbers you are welcome. Here is some more info not included in the first post. If you were to play dobro and steel on the same track, you can mark double on the card and get paid more. This is not double scale which is another category reserved for the cream of the crop of studio musicians. When a producer gives Paul Franklin a call, he automatically knows he is hiring a double scale player. Two master sessions a day, double scale, 12 sessions a week....you can do the math.

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 24 Feb 2012 1:37 pm

Thanks to all who posted in this thread..

I was recently asked by a couple studio owners and a couple artists to make some time to record tracks for them.
I am of the same mindset as Chris.. cut rate sessions and gigs are the downfall of the business.

I don't care if they are small digital studios or big pro shops.. I will treat them all the same and based on what I have seen here.

I know that when I show up, some of these studios will be on the second floor or in a basement... there will be fuel, parking, time, not to mention new strings.. etc.

This is not my first rodeo.