B11th Question

Frank Welsh · Post by **Frank Welsh** » 12 Feb 2012 12:21 pm

For you fellow B11th fans...do you prefer to tune strings 6, 7 and 8 as B-A-B or B-F#-B? I have been using A for the 7th string to give an immediate sense of a seventh chord when strumming an arpeggio from the bottom up or gripping a few of those low strings, but I see that the F# in this position gives a really neat B6th tuning on the bottom five strings. I could see this as an advantage in playing single note melodies an octave lower than one would ordinarily play them.

I see that Barney Isaacs used the F# and I am a great fan of the "Hawaii Calls" sounds with Barney and Jules Ah See. I seem to recall hearing a single string melody of "The Hawaiian Wedding Song" played on the low strings on a "Hawaii Calls" radio broadcast (1960's) and how charming and unexpected this sound was coming from the steel guitar.

Do any of you have a strong preference for either tuning on that seventh string? What are the advantages, if any, of favoring the F# or the A for this string? Or does it not make much difference to you?

I do appreciate your input - I'm finding song after song that fits beautifully with the B11th tuning, including a surprising number of non-Hawaiian tunes. Thanks for your input.

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 12 Feb 2012 1:37 pm

HI FRANK,

Are you able to post some non-Hawaiian, tunes here.

Roger

Kay Das · Post by **Kay Das** » 12 Feb 2012 1:59 pm

The B11 tuning ( and its variants) comes up for discussion time and time again. It is a beautiful tuning, for the close harmonies achievable and it is very different from C6 and family.

If you are member, do a search on "B11" on this forum and you will access previous correspondences and recordings.

Have fun!

Kay

Frank Welsh · Post by **Frank Welsh** » 12 Feb 2012 2:03 pm

Roger, I have never tried to post a tune, but I'll check it out. I do "Peg O My Heart", "Unforgettable", "You Don't Know Me", "Blue Bossa", "Girl From Ipanima", "Once In A While", "Old Cape Cod", "Al-Di-La" and "Out of Nowhere" and the list seems to be growing. The chord-rich B11th seems to have great potential for old standards beyond the Hawaiian genre.

I have C13 on the other neck so I think I can cover lots of types of songs. My new Remington D-8 Steelmaster has me using both necks on certain tunes. Highly addictive.

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 12 Feb 2012 2:41 pm

Many of you have heard JERRY BYRD's 1950's Mercury record of "Steelin' the Chimes".

The first chime chorus is played on the top four strings of the B11th tuning which is the equivilant of A6th type tuning.

Jerry plays the second verse on what sounds likes C6th but it is actually played within the B11th tuning, down on the 3rd & 4th strings for the high four notes of C6th.

I used to play it using both the A tuning and then dropping back to the C6th neck but Jerry directed me to B11th for the entire song.

I found it INTERESTING!

Jack Aldrich · Post by **Jack Aldrich** » 12 Feb 2012 4:00 pm

I have an F# for the 7th string. I get a nice, fat sound by strumming across the bottom 5 strings. - Jack

Frank Welsh · Post by **Frank Welsh** » 12 Feb 2012 5:04 pm

John, do you ever play melodies on those bottom five strings just for a "different" sound? Those five strings with the F# give a fairly complete "6th" tuning all by themselves but in a lower register than most steel melody playing. Makes me think.

Jack Aldrich · Post by **Jack Aldrich** » 12 Feb 2012 5:20 pm

Frank Welsh wrote:John, do you ever play melodies on those bottom five strings just for a "different" sound? Those five strings with the F# give a fairly complete "6th" tuning all by themselves but in a lower register than most steel melody playing. Makes me think.

Yes. The main advantage to the B11, imho, is that the 7th chord is 2 frets down from the top string chord. For example, C is at the 3rd fret for the top strings, and C7 is at the 1st fret for the bottom strings. That's what makes "Sand" sound so nice in B11. When I slide down the 2 frets for the C7 chord, I'll strum across the bootom strings for effect.

Frank Welsh · Post by **Frank Welsh** » 12 Feb 2012 6:29 pm

John, have you tried tuning the seventh string to "A"? If so, any impressions?

Jack Aldrich · Post by **Jack Aldrich** » 12 Feb 2012 9:24 pm

Frank Welsh wrote:John, have you tried tuning the seventh string to "A"? If so, any impressions?

Yes, but it doesn't sound as good to me. Since I play mostly Hawaiian on an 8 string steel in B11, e.g.: "Sand", "How'd Ya Do", "Mapuana", "Paradise Found", and use it for fills on other songs, the F# fits in better, and there's allways that A on the 4th string for the 7th. - JACK

Morgan Scoggins · Post by **Morgan Scoggins** » 13 Feb 2012 4:36 am

This is really a nice posting.I use the B11 tuning on my Remington S8 for songs I learned from the JB Steel Guitar Course, songs like "Rainbows Over Paridise", "Sand",' How Da Ya Do".I have also learned a few others, but when I play other standard tunes, I raise the fifth string to E to give me an A6 tuning. It would be very interesting to find some other material that could be played in B11. A beautiful song "Nuages" would be a good choice. It starts off very much like "Sand". I guess the possibilities are there. We just needto spend time developing them.

Karl Fehrenbach · Post by **Karl Fehrenbach** » 13 Feb 2012 6:16 am

I am happy to see this subject come up once again. It seems to be popping up more and more often. I have two of my 6 string lapsteels now in B11. One has the B on the 6th string just as a home base crutch as I get use to it. I have made up my own string charts up to the 12th fret to help get my mind wrapped around it. I certainly would be interested in seeing more discussion on uses of this tuning. It is just too rich of a sound to be left in obscurity. I see no reason to think that it is ever going to replace C6, but it certainly is a beautiful adjunct to it.

Jack Aldrich · Post by **Jack Aldrich** » 13 Feb 2012 8:15 am

Morgan Scoggins wrote:This is really a nice posting.I use the B11 tuning on my Remington S8 for songs I learned from the JB Steel Guitar Course, songs like "Rainbows Over Paridise", "Sand",' How Da Ya Do".I have also learned a few others, but when I play other standard tunes, I raise the fifth string to E to give me an A6 tuning. It would be very interesting to find some other material that could be played in B11. A beautiful song "Nuages" would be a good choice. It starts off very much like "Sand". I guess the possibilities are there. We just needto spend time developing them.

To move away from Hawaiian music, "Lady Be Good" just rolls off the tuning because it goes from the I chord to the IV7 chord - "Oh lovely [IV7] lady". As I'm getting my mind wrapped around the tuning, I'm finding more stuff to do. Alan Akaka, my kumu mele, calls the B11 sound "the Waikiki sound". Fills behind a singer are getting to be more fun!

Karl Fehrenbach · Post by **Karl Fehrenbach** » 14 Feb 2012 6:38 am

John, I see what you mean about Lady Be Good. It fits beautifully. Try using the minor 7th 3 frets up from the I chord for that second chord. Like it was written for this tuning. Fun stuff.

Jack Aldrich · Post by **Jack Aldrich** » 14 Feb 2012 9:12 am

Karl Fehrenbach wrote:John, I see what you mean about Lady Be Good. It fits beautifully. Try using the minor 7th 3 frets up from the I chord for that second chord. Like it was written for this tuning. Fun stuff.

Yep. That's it. Way cool, yeah?

Bill Wynne · Post by **Bill Wynne** » 14 Feb 2012 9:38 am

Jack, I found that Django Reinhardt's "Nuages" fits pretty nicely on B11th, as well.

http://www.hawaiianmusiclives.com/audio/Nuages.MP3

Just try to overlook the utter lack of technique.

L. Bogue Sandberg · Post by **L. Bogue Sandberg** » 14 Feb 2012 9:51 am

Another tune to look at for B11 is Sing, Sing, Sing, the Louie Prima tune made famous by Benny Goodman and Gene Krupa. I use a variation of John Ely's B11: E C# A F# D# C# A B. (I tune down a whole step to A11 with an F or E on string 8, to work with standard 8 string dobro gauges.) But I'd think the tune would come out fine in the common B11 versions you've been discussing. The B11 or A11 tuning gives a very different, sweet sound to a resonator guitar.

Bogue

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 14 Feb 2012 10:37 am

Beautiful, Bill! You did Django proud.

About ten years ago, I arranged Nuages & Manoir for A6th. The tab's still posted in the forum TAB section but the formatting seems to have gotten messed up a bit.

Frank Welsh · Post by **Frank Welsh** » 14 Feb 2012 10:40 am

L. Bogue Sandberg wrote:Another tune to look at for B11 is Sing, Sing, Sing, the Louie Prima tune made famous by Benny Goodman and Gene Krupa. I use a variation of John Ely's B11: E C# A F# D# C# A B. (I tune down a whole step to A11 with an F or E on string 8, to work with standard 8 string dobro gauges.) But I'd think the tune would come out fine in the common B11 versions you've been discussing. The B11 or A11 tuning gives a very different, sweet sound to a resonator guitar.

Bogue

Have you tried a B for the sixth string instead of the C#? I can see the advantage of the C# in providing a three note A6th chord on strings 3, 4 and 6 with the root (A) on top.

B11 certainly does have a variety of ways to tune those last three strings. I've been using the F# for string #7 lately instead of my usual A and it does add more depth to those low string strums.

Jack Aldrich · Post by **Jack Aldrich** » 14 Feb 2012 11:22 am

L. Bogue Sandberg wrote: But I'd think the tune would come out fine in the common B11 versions you've been discussing. The B11 or A11 tuning gives a very different, sweet sound to a resonator guitar.

Bogue

I agree about the resonator guitar. I have 2 koa/spruce top resonator guitars, basically acoustic lap steels (gotta get pictures up here). The 8 string I keep in C6/Bb7, and the 6 string I keep in a 6 string B11 tuning. There is a wonderful album with Barney Isaacs on steel and George Kuo on slack ket guitar. My Hawaiian friends always respond positively to the sound I get. - JACK

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 14 Feb 2012 11:54 am

My favorite version of B11: (high to low) E C# A F# D# C# B A

Here's some B11 info I posted here on the forum a couple of years ago ---> Click

Frank Welsh · Post by **Frank Welsh** » 14 Feb 2012 12:27 pm

With the sixth string tuned to B you get a D6 chord in the open position on strings 3,4 and 6. I discovered this by accident and don't recall seeing this chord mentioned in any of the few articles on B11th I've seen. I've been integrating this form more and more into my arrangements where I want a somewhat deeper sounding 6th chord instead of the 6th chord on strings 1 through 4.

I could swear I heard this chord formation used in some old "Hawaii Calls" recordings where B11th was used prominently - it is somewhat distinctive in that the 6th tone is on the bottom and the third is on top. I was probably hearing Jules Ah See or Barney Isaacs on the recordings.

L. Bogue Sandberg · Post by **L. Bogue Sandberg** » 14 Feb 2012 2:42 pm

Frank Welsh wrote:

Have you tried a B for the sixth string instead of the C#? I can see the advantage of the C# in providing a three note A6th chord on strings 3, 4 and 6 with the root (A) on top.

No I haven't, Frank. One factor is laziness, rationalized by the mechanics of the spider-resonator. I'm dropping my 5th string a 1/2 step and the 8th string a 1/2 if needed. That slight change doesn't effect the intonation of the rest of the strings. If you start making too many changes, the spider moves up or down and the rest of the strings need to be 'freshened' up.

I remember a gig with a gifted young singer/song writer who changed the tuning on her (finger picked) guitar for almost every tune! More tuning than playing. Long night.

Kay Das · Post by **Kay Das** » 14 Feb 2012 8:09 pm

Two contrasting instances of the B11 tuning which bring out its versatility:

(1) A standard:

http://www.4shared.com/mp3/SFLH-p9-/September_Song.html

(2) A country tune ( Acoustic beginning, B11 comes in at around [0:50] )

http://www.4shared.com/mp3/JIEPEM4M/The ... ing_M.html

I standardize on B-F#-B-D#-F#-A-C#-E.

Kay

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