Cheap Instruments

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Feb 2012 8:59 am

I bought an interesting Epiphone a while back.
When Gibson bought Epiphone, Epiphone discontinued some of their models.
They have re-issued some of them again including this one, The Anniversary Casino:

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 8 Feb 2012 9:17 am

Thanks,Larry! FWIW the $100 I paid for that SQ '51 translates to $13.47 in 1958 dollars...The lowest price anywhere for a new electric guitar in that year was $37.50 (or $37.95-can't remember)for the copper colored single-pickup Silvertone-branded Danelectro U-1.The black one was $2 more.Three times as expensive in terms of purchasing power,and not nearly as much bling.

But Sears sold a LOT of those guitars,to people just starting out,who if they got serious about playing music,immediately started leaving noseprints on the Fender dealer's plate glass window.

PSG as we know it today was still a number of years in the future,so we had to make do with what we had.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 8 Feb 2012 12:50 pm

Dave Hopping wrote:

These cheaper than dirt 51's are one of the great sleepers currently available, especially the ealier made version. And they look cool too!

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Feb 2012 12:59 pm

I gave one of those Fender 51's to my grandson for his birthday, it's a great guitar

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 8 Feb 2012 1:31 pm

Erv, if these 51's weren't so cheap I'd be begging to be your grandson next year!

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Feb 2012 1:34 pm

Ron,
Maybe he'll sell you one. I've given him 5 guitars so far!

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 8 Feb 2012 2:30 pm

My Jagmaster after I modded it.

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 8 Feb 2012 2:36 pm

The Tele CV, all stock..Great player..

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 8 Feb 2012 2:40 pm

The CV Thinline..Another real nice player..

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 8 Feb 2012 2:43 pm

Custom II with P90s..The only guitar I have with P90s in it..

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 8 Feb 2012 2:47 pm

Jay Tursers..Outstanding quality...

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 8 Feb 2012 3:07 pm

"Ain't nothin like the real thing,baby"

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 8 Feb 2012 3:16 pm

"Anything you want you got it right here in the USA"

One more,just to stay on topic:

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 8 Feb 2012 4:08 pm

Papa Joe, TV Jones in the Jagmaster?

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 8 Feb 2012 4:22 pm

You're bad, Dave, very bad, and full of good taste!

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 8 Feb 2012 4:30 pm

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 8 Feb 2012 4:53 pm

I remember back in the 70's when the new Fenders and Gibsons had declined, and the first wave of the "vintage" market started up. But there were a whole lot of those vintage guitars that weren't any good, or they needed frets, pickups or some other repair. ALL the old Fender bass necks gave up the goose, which is how Kubicki, Spector and the other custom bass guys picked up so much momentum. Telecaster bridge pickups in particular were all over the place, they wound them so loosely that they were all going microphonic. Into the 80's particular models began to surge in price, and by the 1990's the whole counterfeit industry was going great guns.

And nowadays ANY old "Fender" or "Gibson" or their fakes are worth gobs of money. Remember all those old Strats that got a Kahler, a bridge humbucker and brass everything? They've disappeared completely, yet every dealer at a big show has a whole wall full of rare colored, near-mint "Vintage Fenders".

"Ain't nothin like the real thing,baby"

"Real" Fender Strats had tiny banjo frets, a 7.25" fretboard radius and strings that fell off both sides of the neck - faults that have been subtly improved on the fake ones. When you pick up a mint 1957 Fender and there are giant frets on a flat shreddy neck, um. And all those microphonic Tele bridge pickups have... gotten better with age? Just about any +$500 Schecter or Ibanez is a better guitar for playing music on.

It's kinda hard to even compare cheap guitars vs. the great old classics, because all the sucky ones evaporated somehow. Where did all those old Jazz basses with terminally-warped necks get to... There are roughly 15,000 1958, 1959 and 1960 Les Paul Standards in existence, but - Gibson only made 1,712 of them. There's a good reason Gibson and Fender owners don't have serial number registries.

And there is so much arrant nonsense about what even makes a guitar "good" - maple is supposed to have a tight fine grain, but - isn't maple with wider, fewer growth rings just taking a step tonally toward mahogany?

If the neck is comfortable, if the pickups pick up and the tuners tune, and it has a nice, average, middle-of-the-road sound - not too shrill, not too muddy - it's a good guitar. The ad copywriters must have nightmares after a hard day's work promising that their great new innovative, radically-improved groundbreaking guitar gives you a "classic" sound. Huh?

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 8 Feb 2012 8:31 pm

Well said Dave.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 9 Feb 2012 6:16 am

Joachim Kettner wrote

The Epiphones of MCCartney and John Lennon (Casino)... I can't imagine that the were cheap to buy at that time.

You are correct. This from Walter Carter at Gruhn Guitars:

1965 Casino (double-pickup) was $310, with vibrato was $349.50.

1965 ES-330 in sunburst was $310, cherry finish was $325.

Hard case was $60 for both models.

Interesting that they chose Epiphone over Gibson

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 9 Feb 2012 8:59 am

Very interesting,considering George and John went with Gibsons for their acoustic guitars earlier on.Why Epiphone? Was there an influential English player/Epi endorser?

G&J respectively had an LP and an LP Junior later on,but I can't recall seeing either of them with 335 types.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 9 Feb 2012 9:23 am

Maybe Paul just tested one and liked it?
Here's a little information about the Epiphones used by The Beatles:

Lennon and Harrison both purchased Epiphone Casinos in 1965 after Paul McCartney acquired one. They were used extensively in the recording of the Revolver album. Though they purchased the guitars in a sunburst finish, both Harrison and Lennon later stripped the finishes off the guitars, claiming it allowed the guitars to "breathe" better. Lennon's stripped-down Casino can be seen in video footage of the famous "Rooftop Concert". Lennon used an Epiphone Casino almost exclusively from 1966 until the group's break-up and is even seen with it during the sessions for his Imagine album.
Paul McCartney's electric guitar parts (solos on "Ticket to Ride", "Another Girl", "Taxman", "Helter Skelter", "Drive My Car", "The End" and "Good Morning Good Morning"[3] to name a few)[4] were chiefly performed on his own Epiphone Casino or sunburst Fender Esquire. For recordings with acoustic parts played by McCartney ("Yesterday"), he favoured a 1964 Epiphone Texan FT-79.[5] In 1968, he started using a D-28 from C. F. Martin & Company.

This is the whole article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Th ... ts#Guitars
Sorry the link doesn't work.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 9 Feb 2012 9:38 am

Dave Hopping wrote:Very interesting,considering George and John went with Gibsons for their acoustic guitars earlier on.Why Epiphone? Was there an influential English player/Epi endorser?

G&J respectively had an LP and an LP Junior later on,but I can't recall seeing either of them with 335 types.

Gibson owned Epiphone at that time and the line was consider a little inferior to the Gibsons. The Casino was a full hollowbody, unlike the the Gibson ES-335, etc. Also, the Casino came with P-90 pickups, which I think were more conducive to The Beatles' sound. Paul picked one up first for studio work.

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 9 Feb 2012 12:24 pm

Larry Miller wrote:Papa Joe, TV Jones in the Jagmaster?

Not exactly..They're GFS Retrotrons..Very jangly sound, kinda like a Ricky..

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 9 Feb 2012 1:12 pm

Papa Joe Pollick wrote:
Larry Miller wrote:Papa Joe, TV Jones in the Jagmaster?
Not exactly..They're GFS Retrotrons..Very jangly sound, kinda like a Ricky..

I've heard these GFS's were made to replicate the Gretsch 'trons' (not sure which ones), and supposedly do a good job. Are those humbucking or single coil? I've been thinking of getting a 2nd Santana SE and tossing those in it.

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 9 Feb 2012 2:03 pm

Here ya go Ron..Take your pick..

http://www.guitarfetish.com/GFS-Retrotr ... _c_99.html