The plot thickens: Remington, ZB Custom or Dekely?

Devon Teran · Post by **Devon Teran** » 26 Jan 2012 10:39 am

I'm still on my search for a used prosteel as my first instrument. I'm now quite comfortable buying off the forum yet because I just don't know enough to make an informed decision about this stuff yet.

Scotty's music has a Remington Stringmaster SD-10 (3p4k) listed. I can't find anything about this guitar online and it looks like every Remington guitar I find is a lap steel.

Does anyone know anything about this guitar? What kind of quality is it? Should I be worried about buying something that is so relatively obscure?

Devon Teran · Post by **Devon Teran** » 2 Feb 2012 9:04 am

I'm bumping this because I'm getting serious about this guitar.

It's at Scotty's in St. Louis. My wife and I are planning to make the drive to go check it out this weekend. The price is right but I'm not sure about the quality of the guitar. I've been told Scotty's has a great reputation of treating beginners well but I want to ask some more about it.

This link makes me worry about buying the Remington sd-10:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... b2feaa0c73

From what I gather there are some quality control issues with Remington pedal steels.

All I know about this guitar is that it's about 5 years old and that Scotty's says it has some cabinet drop but that it's so slight I probably won't know it.

Can someone help me decipher what this will really mean to me?

Is cabinet drop something that I should just understand will happen in my price range?

Is Remington a good maker to go with as a used 'pro steel?'

What other questions should I ask Scotty's?

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 2 Feb 2012 11:30 am

This guitar will serve you well while you're learning how to play, but you'll probably want to get something better in a few years.

I suggest you go to the store and test the degree of cabinet drop yourself, play string with the pedals up, and while the string is still reverberating, step on the pedals and listen to how much the string de-tunes.

The $1350 asking price seems fair.

Devon Teran · Post by **Devon Teran** » 3 Feb 2012 1:20 pm

Okay so here goes:

Scotty's had a repair guy come out and look at the Remington. He adjusted the truss rod and now they say that there is no detectable cabinet drop.

But - since I'm driving that far already. . .
Jefferson County Music (about 40 minutes from there) has a ZB custom (3X4) for $1360 and a Dekley SD-10 (4X4) for $1250.

How would these guitars compare to the Remington in quality?
They said the ZB Custom has a double raise/triple lower and a round cross chassis.

The Dekley is triple raise/ triple lower with a square cross chassis. The Dekley is also 'aluminum rebuilt.'

Help?

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 3 Feb 2012 2:14 pm

Get the Dekley. Don't even think about it. Just grab it before somebody else beats you to it.

Dekleys are great guitars. Their only drawback is that they weigh a lot. But if you get this one, it will last you for the rest of your life. You will never need to buy another steel.

Chris Reesor · Post by **Chris Reesor** » 3 Feb 2012 2:29 pm

Same as Mike Perlowin. Grab the Dekley, if it doesn't have any major issues. I had one of their U12 guitars for about 10 years. Built like a tank. A little heavy by today's standards, but stayed in tune, nice precise, solid mechanics . With reasonable maintenance,it should last a lifetime or more.It will likely take a lifetime to discover everything you can do with 4x4, as well.
My $.02 worth.
Chris

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 3 Feb 2012 6:07 pm

As a ZB diehard (lured into that dangerous and addictive cabal by a chance classified ad 25 years ago), I add my voice to the Dekley constituency...or Remington. Or...or...or...

ZBs are magical-sounding instruments (for my money, the best) but Oh--mah--gawd! are they forbidding to the layman or mechanical nitwit. Unless you have a ZB wizard like B. Greg Jones, Billy Knowles, Kevin Hatton (Kevin makes a reproduction ZB with all the sound and none of the problems) or a JPL deep-space probe assembly team or Indy pit crew at your round-the-clock disposal, find something else (mechanically simpler and probably newer) for your first instrument.

This from an impassioned recidivist ZB owner.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 3 Feb 2012 6:22 pm

Another vote for ZB.

Tone is everything!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 3 Feb 2012 7:49 pm

What does Zirbel's dog play?

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 3 Feb 2012 8:33 pm

ZB's are a bear to work on, but once set up, they are usually maintenance free.

Dekley has better mechanics, vs. ZB's tone and great looks

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 3 Feb 2012 8:36 pm

Not my dog but he's playing a Fender. I normally gig on the ZB these days.

Bob Hamilton · Post by **Bob Hamilton** » 3 Feb 2012 8:44 pm

Which one Dave?

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 3 Feb 2012 8:52 pm

The one Greg Jones rebuilt. 1969 D-10. How is your herd of ZBs Bob? How are you?

Bob Hamilton · Post by **Bob Hamilton** » 3 Feb 2012 9:02 pm

No complaints Dave, thanks. I'll PM you and let this thread run, but I'll add another vote for the ZB.

Devon Teran · Post by **Devon Teran** » 3 Feb 2012 9:54 pm

Since I'm going to try them all out what should I pay attention to? What should I listen for? What should I feel? Is there any sign of wear and tear to keep an eye out for?

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 3 Feb 2012 10:01 pm

I have played a Dekley and they are well built guitars. Never played a Remington and dont know a whole lot about them. BUT....my vote is for the ZB. If they are set up correctly, they play great plus killer tone and looks!!!

But I am a little partial to ZB's anyway............

Greg

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 3 Feb 2012 10:02 pm

Devon, it's true that a lot of players like the way ZBs sound. But they are a mechanical nightmare. There is nothing wrong with the way Dekleys sound. A lot of good music has been played on them. And they are much better mechanically.

You are a beginner. You need to concentrate on learning to play, You want a guitar that is going to make that easier, not one that is tempramental and prone to have problems.

My 2 cents.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 4 Feb 2012 12:59 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:Devon, it's true that a lot of players like the way ZBs sound. But they are a mechanical nightmare. There is nothing wrong with the way Dekleys sound. A lot of good music has been played on them. And they are much better mechanically.

You are a beginner. You need to concentrate on learning to play, You want a guitar that is going to make that easier, not one that is temperamental and prone to have problems.

My 2 cents.

Myy first D-10 was a ZB, and it stood me in good stead for 10 years. The few times I made changes to it were really challenging, but you should concentrate on just playing rather than "mechanic-ing" for a while anyway. I remember setting up my Zeeb and just staring at it for hours, just drinking in its sheer beauty.

The Dekley is definitely the more practical guitar, but the ZB is more soulful and gorgeous.

Either guitar will be great for you, both are better than the Remington.

Carson Leighton · Post by **Carson Leighton** » 4 Feb 2012 4:57 am

I don't know a whole lot about a ZB,,but I do know something about a Dekley..There are a very well built guitar,,sound nice, stay in tune and with a little regular maintenance (like you would do on any steel) they will last a lifetime...A ZB has a great reputation too, but from what I hear,,they are not as user friendly when it comes to making adjustments, changes ,etc..Just my opinion....Good Luck,,,Carson

Devon Teran · Post by **Devon Teran** » 4 Feb 2012 5:59 am

Should it be any cause for concern that the dekley has a rebuilt aluminum under carriage?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Feb 2012 6:59 am

I, too, would go with the Dekley; heavy guitar, but with a good solid reputation. The Remington and the ZB could be a crapshoot. Remington made some decent guitars, and some not so decent, but I wouldn't really classify them as a "pro" brand. The ZB, if it's an older model (with the "cat-ears" on the changer and headstock) has a certain cachet, and they are one of the nicest looking steels, IMHO. But, they are quirky, mechanically, and I wouldn't recommend one to a beginner. Later ZB's, with the generic look (no cat-ears) and standard all-pull mechanics, are easier to work on and set up, but simply aren't as desirable to collectors...sort of a "ZB in name only".

Whatever you buy should be evaluated by someone knowledegable, though (other than the seller). I've seen some rather questionable guitars touted as "real gems", and also some that the owners couldn't tune or play that were really pretty decent guitars...before they got them out of adjustment by "tinkering" with them!

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 4 Feb 2012 7:47 am

Dekleys are really an unrated guitar IMO> I have a D-10 5x8 and let me tell you that yes they are heavy snd biult like a tank but they are not hard to work on and tinker with. Stays in tune exceptionally well, pedals are smooth to operate and most of all they have a killer tone and sustain. I thnk the weight gives them a bad rap.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 4 Feb 2012 8:49 am

I have a 69 ZB that Greg set up and think I'll probably die with this one ... but don't quote me ... However, I've had two Dekley's and they are really nice steels. The later ones are the ticket. Easy to work on and sound great.

This one was a deal.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... ght=dekley

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 4 Feb 2012 8:52 am

Since you have waited this long, save up more money and buy a newer guitar, plays better than the guitars you are looking at, fewer problems and maybe even somebody who can work on it.

Larry Behm

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 4 Feb 2012 8:53 am

Look at it this way. Do you want a wife who is drop dead gorgeous, but who is crazy and drinks too much all the time and is given to fits of uncontrollable rage where she breaks things and throws them at you?

Or would you rather marry somebody who might not be quite as pretty, but who is sober, reliable, and emotionally stable?

The Steel Guitar Forum

The plot thickens: Remington, ZB Custom or Dekely?

The plot thickens: Remington, ZB Custom or Dekely?

the plot thickens. . .

I know what I'd do...

Zb

ZBs

Dekley

the "known quantity"

Dekley PSG