Replace a 1502-4 with a 1501-4 or 4 Ohm JBL?

Jim Cooley · Post by **Jim Cooley** » 27 Jan 2012 4:59 pm

Would replacing the Black Widow 1502 in my LTD400 with a 1501 or 4 Ohm JBL cause any problems? As far as I know, the amp is stock. Thanks.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 27 Jan 2012 7:01 pm

As long as the amp sees 4 Ohms and the speaker can handle 225 WRMS, it doesn't matter

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 27 Jan 2012 7:24 pm

+1 for the JBL over the Black Widow JMO!

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 27 Jan 2012 7:39 pm

JBL All The Way They are great. Sonny.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 27 Jan 2012 9:51 pm

JBL. No comparison.

Todd Brown · Post by **Todd Brown** » 27 Jan 2012 10:04 pm

Now, you know, Jim, the 1501-4 DT would be best. I just happen to know where you can find one!

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 27 Jan 2012 10:38 pm

I haven't played through a JBL in a real long time so can't comment on that. But the BW 1501-SB (shallow basket) is great speaker for PSG. It's much better sounding than the 1502 (which is really a bass speaker) and somewhat better sounding than the 1501 DT (deep throw). Just my opinions.

Jim Cooley · Post by **Jim Cooley** » 28 Jan 2012 12:16 am

Hey, thanks guys. My LTD400 has a 1502-4 in it. I have a 1501 in my NV400 and a Session 400 with an original 4 Ohm Peavey/JBL. I want to compare them in the same amp.

Didn't the Peavey JBL become the original JBL D130?

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 28 Jan 2012 12:23 am

I think the JBL/Peavey was a K130. K's can handle more power than D's. If you could find one of them in a 4 ohm, it would be a good match for your Peavey amp. The later E series was used in some Webb amps and it's OK, but it's way heavy in my experience.

My opinion, FWIW, either the K130 or the current Peavey 1501 SB if you like a lot of low end or the older more evenly balanced 1501-4 DT. Most steel guitar player/users of Peavey speakers prefer the 1501-4SB. YMMV.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Jan 2012 4:52 am

If you play deep and loud, stick with the DT. I have some others driven out of the gap. This can be hard on things.

Adam Goodale · Post by **Adam Goodale** » 28 Jan 2012 7:43 am

Jim, If you decide to get rid of the BW 1502, shoot me a message, i have been looking for a good used one. Thanks!

Jim Cooley · Post by **Jim Cooley** » 30 Jan 2012 6:58 am

Saturday was amp day. I tried my 1502, 1501, and Peavey/JBL in my LTD400. The 1502 is back in the amp. I might try this again, just to be sure, but not today. I think I need some time to let my ears equalize. It was fun and educational, though. I also compared three speaker combinations in my Fender Twin. I might have try one more in that amp.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 30 Jan 2012 9:19 am

Didn't the Peavey JBL become the original JBL D130?

I think the JBL/Peavey was a K130.

The JBL D130 is NOT at all the same as the speaker that Peavey developed and introduced in the early 1970's as the "Black Widow." This was done in response to the refusal of Electro-Voice to sell them the speakers they wanted. Previous to this time Peavey used CTS and Eminence drivers in all of its products. If you have a Peavey amp with a JBL it is not the original speaker.

JBL introduced the D-130 15" loudspeaker in 1947, this was the first known use of a 4" flat wire voice coil in a cone transducer. In 1955 Leo Fender incorporated the JBL D130 into some of his premium guitar amplifier models, this was the first production-line use of JBL speakers in the musical instrument amplification field. In response to the high numbers of speaker failures with Fender's Dual Showman amps the D130F was created, incorporating changes suggested by Harvey Gerst that increased the power handling capacity of the original D130 to an appropriate level. After Harvey left the company JBL made more modifications to further increase power handling, resulting in the "K" series of musical instrument speakers.

According to Hartley Peavey himself, the Black Widow speaker line was NOT derived from JBL at all but was a creation of two former Electro-Voice employees who joined his company in the early 1970's. The aluminum dome dust cover gave the BW speakers a similar appearance to the JBL products and perhaps this is the source of this common misconception. In any case, design-wise the two speakers have little else in common.

The JBL speakers were then and still are considerably more efficient - up to twice the output per watt - with wider, smoother response and less distortion than any of the alternatives on the market. Still, some folks prefer the BW to the JBL so all I can say is to each his or her own....

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 30 Jan 2012 12:35 pm

Dave Grafe wrote:
Didn't the Peavey JBL become the original JBL D130?

I think the JBL/Peavey was a K130.
The JBL D130 is NOT at all the same as the speaker that Peavey developed and introduced in the early 1970's as the "Black Widow." This was done in response to the refusal of Electro-Voice to sell them the speakers they wanted. Previous to this time Peavey used CTS and Eminence drivers in all of its products. If you have a Peavey amp with a JBL it is not the original speaker.
....

THIRTY-ONE YEARS OF “STAINLESS STEEL” AMPLIFICATION
By Mike Brown
Although Peavey has been manufacturing amplifiers for over 40 years, it’s hard
to believe that it’s been 31 years since we began manufacturing steel guitar
amplifiers. In 1974, the legendary Peavey Session 400 and LTD 400 amplifiers
were first designed for steel guitarists. The Session 400 amplifier featured a 15”
JBL speaker and was rated at 200 watts. I frequently receive calls from steel
guitarists who still own original Session 400’s, and they are to this day
enthusiastic about the sound of their prized amplifiers.

The above from the Peavey article by Mike Brown. It's on the support page of their website if you care to look.

The first Sessions had 4Ω JBLs. It was a black frame with a Made for Peavey label or something to that effect. I've had 2 or 3 of the speakers over the years. Matter of fact, I know a few guys around here that still have the old Sessions with that speaker.

They pop up here in the classifieds from time to time also.

Peavey stated they developed their own speaker, the Black Widow, which was a flat magnet with a spider web decal, due to what they perceived as a lack of adequate drivers that would withstand the demands of their products.

Jim Cooley · Post by **Jim Cooley** » 30 Jan 2012 4:18 pm

David, Jerry-

The speaker is in my 1983 Session 400. Below is a photo of the back of the speaker.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 30 Jan 2012 6:05 pm

Yeah, that's it. I'd forgotten exactly how they were labeled. I didn't remember they installed them as late as '83. Anyhow, I acquired used ones 10-15 yrs. ago for a buddy to use in a Peavey Jazz Classic 400 amp and one for a friend in town here for another steel amp.

I thought they sounded great in the old Sessions and LTDs.

Todd Brown · Post by **Todd Brown** » 30 Jan 2012 6:11 pm

Still no Black Widow!

These are the reason Peavey built the 1501-4 DT!

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 30 Jan 2012 6:40 pm

Not to belabor the issue, but perhaps too late for that, the early 1501 Black Widows were like the one in the photo of this old Artist 240 amp: Short basket, flat magnet:

The 1501 DT series, long basket re-gapped coil design:

would come later for a period before they returned to the shallow basket design, as in the bottom photo, with the newly configured gap/coil 1501 SB and is still available in some variation today, far as I know. [edit for better pic]
Several changes in magnet construction also occurred through the years.

I think most of the information is available at www.peavey.com on the support page. Look for the 31 yrs. paper referenced above and/or in tech notes on the side bar. The 1502 was also used in some amps/years but I have absolutely no experience with them as used in steel amps.
...and as always, I defer to Mike Brown or other knowledgeable expert from the Peavey Co.

Jim Cooley · Post by **Jim Cooley** » 30 Jan 2012 7:51 pm

Jerry,

My LTD400 has a Black Widow 1502-4 that looks like the one in the photo of your Artist 400. I have a Nashville 400 with a 1501 that looks like the one in your next photo, except that there is no label on mine.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 31 Jan 2012 1:11 am

Jim Cooley wrote:Jerry,

My LTD400 has a Black Widow 1502-4 that looks like the one in the photo of your Artist 400.

Jim, does that one have the aluminum dust cap?

I noticed you ended up putting the 1502 back in the LTD. So I guess you concluded that amp sounded best with the 1502 between the 3 of them?

Did you try this experiment with the other Peavey amps you have?

Jim Cooley · Post by **Jim Cooley** » 31 Jan 2012 8:25 pm

Jerry,

The 1502 does have an aluminum dust cap.

I put the 1502 back in the LTD because neither of the others sounded definitely superior in that amp, in that room.

I did not do the same thing with my other amps. I was interested in the results in the LTD 400. I will probably try the experiment again and listen to different speakers in different amps next to each other. It would be interesting.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 31 Jan 2012 10:03 pm

Thanks for the info Jim. Everybody says the old alum dome 1502's were great sounding steel speakers. I've owned a couple dozen 1501's from all eras but never one of those.

Thanks again. Interesting comparison and results.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 1 Feb 2012 10:40 am

Thanks for the correction, guys, obviously I am mistaken about original equipment in that some Peavey-labelled JBL speakers were factory-installed in early Session 400 amps. My information about the origins of the Black Widow Speakers was taken directly from Hartley Peavey, not Mike Brown, and Hartley does not mention using JBL speakers for any of his products.

Still, the primary point of my post - that there is no connection between any of the JBL speaker models and the the Black Widow line - is a fact, the BW speaker designs were created at Peavey by former E/V employees using their own independent line of research and development. A close examination of JBL and BW speakers clearly shows that there is no similarity at all between them other than the aluminum dust cover on the front.

http://peavey.com/support/technotes/har ... pter_2.pdf

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 1 Feb 2012 8:29 pm

I purchased my 1974 Session 400 new with lifetime warranty on parts. I still have it. I had the option of two 12" EV spkrs (heavey). Or a single 15 JBL. It was a grey frame (D130F ?). I blew that speaker shortly after I got the amp. Peavey replaced it with a black frame (k130 ?). After a few more years, it blew and Peavey replaced it with a BW. I still own the amp with the BW. It's been in and out of the shop many times, but still the best sounding session 400. I still have the warranty card.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 1 Feb 2012 9:44 pm

I have some printed material here somewhere about that and I remember that twin EV's were listed as an option. Hartley used whatever was available on the market same as everyone else. CTS, Eminence, Oxford, etc.

It's an interesting read about how he came to design and build his amplifiers, and haul them around in his car to different stores and artists. The history is a true success story of one man's dream.

His discontent with available products and vision toward designing his own speakers resulted in his seeking out others who could help him realize that dream.

"How it All Started" is another article along with several others available http://www.peavey.com/support/ on their support page. Steel Guitarist info, tech notes, the speaker tab, all have good info for anyone interested.

Apologies for the drift Jim. Hope you will post results if you do more comparisons.