all pull closest to the emmons push pull in tone????

[Erv Niehaus]

Stuart,
You tell 'em, brother!

[Roger Crawford]

Chris, I never figured you as the straight guy!

[Richard Sinkler]

Mike Mantey wrote:

Mullen G2 of course.

Test drive and compare and see....

I really don't think so. But, the Mullen (any model) has a great tone and all at Mullen should be very proud of their sound. I would rather someone remember my guitar (talking as a builder) as having it's own distinct sound than as sounding like any other brand. I also believe that if you want a push/pull tone, buy a push/pull.

[Carson Leighton]

Right you are Richard...If you want an Emmons sound,,then buy an Emmons,,push pull or all pull..As I said in my first post on this subject,,my Carter has a similar tone,,but it's not the same,,and I wouldn't want it to be the same..I already have a p/p Emmons...Regards,,,Carson

[Brad Malone]

Most thought the EMCI was the P/P<<

Henry M., You are about the 4th person to tell me that the EMCI is close tonewise to the Emmons PP.

[Wally Moyers]

[quote="Wally Moyers"]I can hear the growl in my G2.. I played a push pull for years, the Mullen G2 reminds me of the p/p only it plays much better... If you strum a p/p and a g2 with no amp you will hear a similar sound...

I agree with Mike, "Take a test drive" Like i said before, the G2 reminds me of the P/P... I think you can really only compare two steels by playing them yourself, side by side.. My son Jeremy and I have my Dads late 60s P/P....

When I bought my first Zum in the mid 80s I was looking for the P/P sound with the Sho Bud playability... What I got was a steel that sounded like a Zum and played way better than a Sho Bud... The G2 is the closest I'v personally played to the sound of the P/P and plays as smooth as anything else I'v experienced... The new Zum Hybrid, depending on the player, seems to sound very similar, I would love to try one myself someday.

[Brad Malone]

The new Zum Hybrid, depending on the player, seems to sound very similar, I would love to try one myself someday.<<Wally> I don't know if Gary Carter has a Zum Hybrid or regular Zum but it does not sound anywhere near an Emmons PP to my ears. Mike Johnson Plays an Emmons PP on the Family Reunion Show on the same TV channel...I realize that different amps and electronics may also be in the equation.

[Henry Matthews]

Most thought the EMCI was the P/P<<

Henry M., You are about the 4th person to tell me that the EMCI is close tonewise to the Emmons PP.

Probably won't be the last either.
Gary's Zum is not a Hybrid but still sounds great.

[Cliff Kane]

I had an EMCI for a while. It was a very good guitar in all respects. I spent a lot of time A/B'ing the EMCI against my '66 and my '72 Emmons, playing through my '68 Twin. The EMCI has a full tone, mid and low growl / hair/ edge to the tone that is like an Emmons, but the top end is not as open, and over all it's a more compressed and less dynamic tone (my Zum and late model Sho-Bud were more so). I changed the EMCI pickups from humbuckers to single coils and that opened up the tone, but it's still not there completely. This is perceived more when actually playing the guitars, rather than listening to a recording. This is a lame description, but the Emmons tone is in part perceived by the player when he is playing the guitar and receiving the physical feedback of the guitar along with the sound, sort of like playing a good Telecaster. My '66 and '72 sound different from each other, but they both have the open dynamic tone and player feedback thing going on that all-pulls don't. The EMCI sounds great, probably a lot because of its wrap around frame. The EMCI is awesome, but it plays and sounds like a very soulful all-pull. All-pulls have a lot of benefits over push-pulls.

[Herb Steiner]

I think that Cliff Kane hit on something that I'd been mulling over in anticipation of another post to this thread. That is, the experience... as previously put, the gestalt... of playing a well-tuned and well-set up PP is that it's a physical and an emotional experience as well as an auditory one.

The mojo of which I speak could be paraphrased by a book from the 60's, which I've retitled "Zen and the Art of the Emmons Original." It's difficult to explain if you haven't felt it, and not all players who have owned PP guitars have felt it. Some have parted with their Emmonses and have had no regrets, others have had Seller's Remorse long after the sale. IOW, the guitar is not for Everyman.

I speak for myself and from personal experience only, but I have played almost every brand of steel guitar at least once and the list of guitars I've personally owned includes 3 Fenders, 3 Bigsbys, 7 Sho~Buds of various vintages, 4 Fessendens, 5 Mullen, and numerous Emmonses of both PP and LeGrande configurations. Only the Emmons Original is the one I return to and upon which will I play my way into the horizon as I find myself in the winter of my career.

Here's an analogy some of y'all may understand. One of my money-vortex hobbies is a 1973 Datsun 240Z. It's an old sports car, but it's one of my daily drivers. No power steering, few amenities, and constantly being tinkered with. I've also driven my friend's gorgeous Nissan 350Z, all the bells and whistles and drives like a dream, but for some reason doesn't give me the same experience as my '73 240 does.

Not everyone feels the way I do, nor should they. But those that do feel it choose the machines that speak to them, whether it's a guitar or a vehicle.

[Bill Terry]

...the Emmons tone is in part perceived by the player when he is playing the guitar and receiving the physical feedback of the guitar along with the sound, sort of like playing a good Telecaster.

That's about as good an explanation as I've heard, and I can certainly relate to the analogy of a good Tele. A good one just feels alive in your hands.

I just recently bought my second P/P, the first one I sold quite a few years ago, and I have to say it was a very pleasant moment when I got it to the gig and felt that 'P/P vibe' again. My first thought was "Ah, now I remember what I liked about these guitars." and IMO you can't just call it tone.

[Lane Gray]

Here's an analogy some of y'all may understand. One of my money-vortex hobbies is a 1973 Datsun 240Z. It's an old sports car, but it's one of my daily drivers. No power steering, few amenities, and constantly being tinkered with. I've also driven my friend's gorgeous Nissan 350Z, all the bells and whistles and drives like a dream, but for some reason doesn't give me the same experience as my '73 240 does.

Do you still have the flattop carbs?
I love my 73, but she has 72 carbs and balance tube.
Steel, LTD, and my seat all fit behind the seats.

[Herb Steiner]

I have the round top SU carbs from a 72 and all the emissions crap taken off. It's a California car and virtually rust-free, compared to most 240s you run across.

Currently it has a '72 front bumper with all correct rubber, but as you know the bumpers from 70-72 were basically cosmetic. I do have the correct 73 bumper with the 5mph mounting brackets, but that bumper has to be straightened at the chrome shop before it goes back on the car. Meanwhile, the 72 bumper fits like a glove, so I may just keep it on there. I also put a Retro-sound radio and a speaker box from MSA replacing the rear deck panel in it, but other than those things, it's stock in 115 blue metallic.



Just to keep this thread about steel guitars, yes... an Emmons PP, a Nashville 112, and a pack-seat can all fit in the car on gig days, though the pack-seat rides in the passenger seat, so my right side vision isn't blocked by the gear standing up in the back, also it's safer to have the stuff laying down.

[Lee Baucum]

People parking their cars in the front yard.

There goes the neighborhood...

[Herb Steiner]

Those tires are only cardboard replicas. Actually the car is up on blocks.

[Brian Henry]

Both my Emmons push pull and my MCI have the same "growl!!"

[Danny Bates]

I agree with tbhenry.

I also think the MCI and the push/pull have a simular tone. I own both.

As to which NEW guitar has it, I would say the closest I've heard are the Zum Hybrid and the Rittenberry. I heard Randy Beavers play his Zum in concert. As far as the Ritt, I'm just going by recordings and videos since I've never actually seen a Rittenbury in person.

All pedal steel guitars sound great to me. Fact is, I'd rather have the old Sho-Bud tone for the the authentic classic country stylings.

[b0b]

I hear more differences between amplifiers than I hear between pedal steels. With any given amp, most steel guitars can be dialed in to sound about the same as each other. Switch amps - big difference! You can't get a good sound out of a bad amp, no matter what guitar you use. A good amp can make almost any steel guitar sound good.

Of course, my ears are shot so what do I know.

[Robert Cates]

Bob ..I'm with you on what you just said. So make it Bob times 2 or is it Bob squared.

A big percentage of us on this forum cannot tell which brand of steel is playing on any given song. So what does that tell you. All this posturing over brands of steel is for nothing.

Wasn't it Jeff Newman that said...When it comes your turn to play...play the hell out of it.

So what ever you got for a steel..make steel guitar noises with it. No one will ever know what brand steel you have and the people in the audience don't care.

Bob

[Bill Terry]

Bob C., I agree with what you say, but I'd also say when a guitar is giving me positive feedback as a player, whether it's my perception of the tone, or vibe, or whatever, then I play better. The audience may not know what I'm playing, or care, but I do.

That doesn't mean it has to be a P/P by any means..

[Robert Cates]

Good point ..Bill

[Erv Niehaus]

This is my dog Henway and he has a growl just like an Emmons!

[Robert Cates]

Erv
You have got to get rid of that dog. That is a mean K9.

I know what you need Erv if you want the growl. One of those bent shaft Mullen. They are great.

Bob

PS Don't get angry ..I'm just kidding with you.

[Danny Bates]

How much does he weigh Erv?

[Erv Niehaus]

Henways about two or three pounds!
His growl is worse than his bite except that time he grabbed onto a Mullen and bent the cross shafts.
I think im going to change his name from Henway to G2!