Is rap actually music?

Jeff Garden · Post by **Jeff Garden** » 17 Jan 2012 5:36 am

What next, "books on CD" as a separate musical category?

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 17 Jan 2012 7:06 am

Mike Neer wrote:Is this music? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGDkdx2zjK0

Yes. Honestly I don't think that I would buy the record, but can get the finesse that went into recording of this song, what I can't grab is the wole meaning of the lyrics.
(Have to read them again).

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 17 Jan 2012 2:47 pm

Think about it this way - if you took the vocals off the track, would it be music? Seems like we're focusing ONLY on the vocals. What about the rest?

The characterization of rap as 'poetry over music' may be pretty accurate.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 17 Jan 2012 2:59 pm

The assumption that the person in a musical group who opens his/her mouth, has to deliver the melody has been obsolete for quite awhile.

Something like this then, Olli?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfMRP9DonXI

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 17 Jan 2012 4:54 pm

Well,technically he's delivering a melody.I suppose that it actually be melodious(as opposed to just plain odious)isn't necessarily required

Mike Schwartzman · Post by **Mike Schwartzman** » 17 Jan 2012 9:40 pm

For your consideration, folks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df347-bEKUQ

This is the theme song to a new tv series (just entering it's 2nd season) on the FX channel. The name of the show is "Justified". It's got "rap vocals" with a pretty big helping of dobro, and (terribly sorry b0b) banjo

.

In the context of the show and the song by itself sparks my interest. It seems to be taking "Rap" in a different direction This just may be a very familiar direction to some of us here on the forum.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 17 Jan 2012 10:04 pm

Going to say two things that will blow all the protesters to rap not being music out of the water.Square dance calling an contra dance calling. Bam now get over it

Jeff Garden · Post by **Jeff Garden** » 18 Jan 2012 5:03 am

AJ: Haven't been to a square dance in awhile but isn't a string band or at least a fiddler playing actual music while a caller is talking over it? IMHO as long as there is a melody somewhere (vocally or instrumentally)it meets my definition of music.

Although it would be amusing to watch a barn full of old New Englanders square dancing to a drum machine and scratching turntables.

Anyway...if Gregorian chants, "songs" of the humpback whale, and Japanese Taiko drumming qualify as music, then yes rap is music. Bottom line...life is too short - who cares what you call it, just listen to what you enjoy

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 18 Jan 2012 5:25 am

shucks ! did'nt Jerry Reed rap on his tunes ?

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 18 Jan 2012 6:01 am

Mike Schwartzman wrote:For your consideration, folks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df347-bEKUQ

This is the theme song to a new tv series (just entering it's 2nd season) on the FX channel. The name of the show is "Justified". It's got "rap vocals" with a pretty big helping of dobro, and (terribly sorry b0b) banjo .

In the context of the show and the song by itself sparks my interest. It seems to be taking "Rap" in a different direction This just may be a very familiar direction to some of us here on the forum.

That's great stuff. My friend, Mike "Slo-Mo" Brenner has been playing dobro in a hip hop group of his own for many years, Slo Mo. It is uplifting stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU_U7MShBXw

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 18 Jan 2012 9:14 am

Mike Schwartzman wrote:
For your consideration, folks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df347-bEKUQ

This is the theme song to a new tv series (just entering it's 2nd season) on the FX channel. The name of the show is "Justified". It's got "rap vocals" with a pretty big helping of dobro, and (terribly sorry b0b) banjo .

In the context of the show and the song by itself sparks my interest. It seems to be taking "Rap" in a different direction This just may be a very familiar direction to some of us here on the forum.

That's great stuff. My friend, Mike "Slo-Mo" Brenner has been playing dobro in a hip hop group of his own for many years, Slo Mo. It is uplifting stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU_U7MShBXw

I really enjoyed that stuff. Thanks Mike and Mike.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 18 Jan 2012 9:57 am

Regardless of vocals, I don't like music that's based on repetition. Playing the same 4-bar segment over and over doesn't do anything for me. That's really why I don't like hip-hop.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 18 Jan 2012 10:15 am

b0b wrote:Regardless of vocals, I don't like music that's based on repetition. Playing the same 4-bar segment over and over doesn't do anything for me. That's really why I don't like hip-hop.

That's the definition of pop music. Obviously someone who's got developed musician ears or is an in-depth music listener is not going to get their world rocked by pop repetition. Unless, it's a guilty pleasure that you don't have to think when you listen.

More important detail it's dance music. So some of it is great booty shaking music but, slim on musical fulfillment. I do lots of 1900-1940s music of all styles, compose orchestral music / film score, do complex progressive rock, world music, arrange for big band and all manner of groups but, sometimes (this is when I DJ especially) it's ok to like a Jay-Z song and just get down and get funky. Mind you I am not a fan of profanity in language anyway. I think the English lexicon has more interesting ways of self expression. Unless you drop a 40lb. sledge hammer on your toe.Then it's a free for all

I,literally listen to everything because, all if it is some form of notes melodic or rhythmic linked together sometimes interestingly and unique and other times not so much but, I can potentially garner an idea from the most unexpected place. i just don't rule out much. Bring on the speed metal, raphop, swing, hindi grass

Life is a wide wide palate of flavors, colors and different brushes to dip within them I think we're better off as a growing culture hoping to not stagnate, to experience them all. Not necessarily love or even like them all but, an informed experience. That is a life truly lived. I am however a renaissance minded person in the age of specialization. I know I'm more iconoclastic than most. Life is yummiest at a buffet of many many flavors. Just make sure you use the sneeze guard

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 18 Jan 2012 10:38 am

Checkout Dennis Crouch playing upright bass with T Bone Burnett Palestine Texas with John Mayer playing guitar on Leno 2006.........awesome good !
AJ, I like the way you look at music!

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 18 Jan 2012 10:56 am

T Bone Burnett Palestine Texas with John Mayer on Guitar Leno, 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4cd-8fS ... re=related
Thanx Theresa

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 18 Jan 2012 10:58 am

b0b wrote:Regardless of vocals, I don't like music that's based on repetition. Playing the same 4-bar segment over and over doesn't do anything for me. That's really why I don't like hip-hop.

I've been listening to African music for 30 years. Very rarely does it deviate from a repetitious chord sequence/bass line. It doesn't make it any less powerful for me--in fact, it provides the setting for story-telling, very similar to what rap is doing, except with a melody. Harmony is predominantly a Western system.

Some examples:
Ali Farka Toure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l5KZVte6iY

Oumou Sagare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq9shQQJXdQ

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 18 Jan 2012 11:08 am

Thanks CrowBear!

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 18 Jan 2012 11:16 am

Mike Neer wrote:
b0b wrote:Regardless of vocals, I don't like music that's based on repetition. Playing the same 4-bar segment over and over doesn't do anything for me. That's really why I don't like hip-hop.
I've been listening to African music for 30 years. Very rarely does it deviate from a repetitious chord sequence/bass line. It doesn't make it any less powerful for me--in fact, it provides the setting for story-telling, very similar to what rap is doing, except with a melody. Harmony is predominantly a Western system.

Some examples:
Ali Farka Toure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l5KZVte6iY

Oumou Sagare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq9shQQJXdQ

Love it. I knew about Ali Farka not Sagare. Thanks Mike

Considering at it's heart and origin African music (and really all music)was part of spiritual / meditation / devotional chant, repetition is key to entering the altered state. Complexity involves way too much thought if you're trying to reach a higher thought space. Really more of 'being' than thinking Unless you're 'aiding' it along with ingestibles

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 18 Jan 2012 11:17 am

Theresa Galbraith wrote:Checkout Dennis Crouch playing upright bass with T Bone Burnett Palestine Texas with John Mayer playing guitar on Leno 2006.........awesome good !
AJ, I like the way you look at music!

Thanks Theresa!

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 18 Jan 2012 11:25 am

Just thinking at least partially Billy Joel's we didn't start the fire. He chants monotone till the chorus sections.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 18 Jan 2012 11:38 am

No,No,No, HELL NO

YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 18 Jan 2012 11:53 am

Charles Davidson wrote:No,No,No, HELL NO YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

but, are you suuuure

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 18 Jan 2012 12:06 pm

ABSOLUTE ,NOT DEBATEABLE.

YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 18 Jan 2012 12:20 pm

Charles Davidson wrote:ABSOLUTE ,NOT DEBATEABLE. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

*pout* ooookkkk

Justin Jacobson · Post by **Justin Jacobson** » 18 Jan 2012 1:55 pm

Mike Neer wrote:Is this music? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGDkdx2zjK0

That album was my #1 favorite release of last year.

Personally I'd rather listen to classic hip hop/rap than the new country, sometimes more so than classic country.

As to if Rap music is music or not, I think others have said it better than I could, but of course it is. Sure you may not like it, and that's fine. But some of the hip hop music that is coming out now is miles ahead better than the country music coming out now. It's more interesting on numerous levels, musically and lyrically. But that's just my opinion. I'm sure others have differing opinions, and more power to them. But to discount an entire style of music, as a musician, is creative death.