I can't just slap a .013 in place of my 3rd string can I?

Dale Hansen · Post by **Dale Hansen** » 17 Nov 2011 10:39 am

There was a brief period of time, in the mid- 80's, when I was talked into, and tried .012's on my 3rd string. After the first few 'popped', I got very 'gun-shy', and decided that I'd better return to .011's, before I developed an irreversible complex, or bad case of "Dodecaphobia".

The mere thought of putting an .013 in that slot shrivels my willie.
Besides that,...Aside from looking like "Jason Voorhees", I know that trying to play with oven mitts, and a hockey mask would set me back several decades...

DH

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Nov 2011 11:03 am

I have never had a problem with a 12 but I tried a 13 the other night and it broke at the keyhead when I started to bring it up to pitch.

BTW: This was on a Zum Hybrid.

Dan Galysh · Post by **Dan Galysh** » 17 Nov 2011 11:14 am

Dale

Dale Hansen · Post by **Dale Hansen** » 17 Nov 2011 11:24 am

..That's because "Niehaus", roughly translates to 'Crocodilian-Like-Skin',...according to olde Germanic lore, and tradition.

"Erv", to my recollection, shares it's origin with something relating to the resilience, or durability of *Siberian Woodpecker lips.

*It's not likely that I'll ever see one, though. They're extremely rare, and prefer to live, and burrow, in petrified forests.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Nov 2011 11:37 am

Besides that, in the Winter time, we go into hibernation along with the polar bears up here on the tundra!

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 17 Nov 2011 11:37 am

Dale, the doctor would like to see you now.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 17 Nov 2011 11:57 am

Thanks for the info RB.
Well, we've answered the question of whether it will work or not. The answer is yes....and no....

There are at least a couple of us using them on a Zum. Other guitars seem not to be compatible. And, except for the adventurous spirited Erv, some of you are too chicken to try 'em

....joking, of course.

I don't know that I'll always use a 13 on my Zum, but I'm glad to know that it'll work there. I bought a 12 pak of SIT's when I first started using them and they have worked well. Haven't broken one at the keyhead. When they do break, which isn't often, they break at the finger from fatigue like all the others. I don't know that it's brand specific. Probably expect similar results with any of the majors.

Now, I don't play 4 or 5 hrs. every night and I have a couple guitars so I'm not hammering on the same strings all the time. That might make a difference.

Different strokes. I doubt I'll ever go back to an .011 unless I start having problems with string quality or guitar issues. I like the .012 for many years on all my other guitars I've owned. Reinforced 11.5 ga. is a good compromise.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 17 Nov 2011 12:07 pm

Now, I don't play 4 or 5 hrs. every night and I have a couple guitars so I'm not hammering on the same strings all the time. That might make a difference.

AH HA!! So, in the picture I posted above, the big thing in his hand is actually what he plays (hammers) with. Too cool.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 22 Nov 2011 5:14 am

Erv Niehaus wrote:I have never had a problem with a 12 but I tried a 13 the other night and it broke at the keyhead when I started to bring it up to pitch.

BTW: This was on a Zum Hybrid.

Probably installer error Erv.

Nah, I dunno, but I played mine for 8 hrs. or so this past weekend including the local steel club without a whimper.

I normally change out 3 and 5, at least, before shows if they've been on there for a while, but this time couldn't get to it. I forgot how long it's been on there.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 22 Nov 2011 7:20 am

Jerry,
I think I figured out the problem.
It was a right handed string and I'm left handed.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 23 Nov 2011 6:30 am

I have used a "12" for my 3rd string on my Shobud guitars for the 8 puny years I have been playing. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to, and that they "won't work". Geeze, I suppose I'll start breaking strings now!

I always use nichol Jagwire Ricky Davis series strings--great tone, and stays in tune. I do the fulltone first string raise in my copedant. Halftone raise on string 3.

Never tried a "13", though.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 23 Nov 2011 11:00 am

Erv said:

Jerry,
I think I figured out the problem.
It was a right handed string and I'm left handed

But, you play RIGHT handed.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 23 Nov 2011 11:06 am

Left handed people are in their right mind!

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 23 Nov 2011 12:42 pm

There is no way I would ever use a 13 on the 3rd. Not only would it scare the heck out of me, those high gauge strings just won’t get the sound I love like those thin twangy strings do.
With the rest of the strings a smaller gauge with everything tuned stratup the 10 on the 3rd sounds really balanced. I very rarely break a string.
Using a compressor / limiter, a little delay with detune, stereo thru 2 Fender Super Reverbs with 4 10s each sounds pretty good to me. Don't sound too shabby right out of the PSG (no fx) into One 4-10 Super Reverb.
I think it's the combination of those thin twangy strings and the 4-10s that make the sound I like.

Disclaimer: Not recommended for PSGs that are equipped with lever clusters or PSGs that have issues with low string tension lowering strings.
1st .. 12
2nd .. 13
3rd .. 10
4th .. 13
5th .. 17
6th .. 2o wound
7th .. 24 "
8th .. 28 "
9th .. 32 "
10th. 36 "

Richard Damron · Post by **Richard Damron** » 25 Nov 2011 10:37 am

Listen up, Y'all.

Richard Burton is the only one on track for this discussion.

Go to:

http://liutaiomottola.com/

Here you'll find the references, the interactive formulas and what-not in order to answer the question. According to Mottola, a string should not be tensioned greater than 80% of its' breaking strength. Using Richard's last post as a point of departure, a 0.012"diameter string, tuned to A=440Hertz will have a tension of 36.5 pounds on a 24¼" scale length. The breaking strength is 40 pounds. This is 91.25% of the breaking strength. It should be noted that string tension varies with scale length for constant pitch.

Do ya really want to chance it? Not me.

Go to the site and figger it out for yourselves. It's painless.

Respectfully,

Richard

Eric Philippsen · Post by **Eric Philippsen** » 25 Nov 2011 7:18 pm

Wow, here I've been living on the edge for the last 25 years and I didn't even know it. I've used 12's for the 3rd ever since i complained that 11's sounded thin and wimpy and Jeff Newman told me to switch to the big boy 12's. I've used 'em on a Super Pro, a Zum and every push-pull I own. They work just fine and sound a heck of a lot fuller than the skinnier little brother.

The string's breakage is related to both the brand and how long it's been used. No surprise there. Sometimes you run into a bad batch of strings and they break right away, one after the other, as soon as you get them to pitch. Been there. Done that. However, I will say that I have finally found a brand that is all-around great.

Use a 13? Never thought about doing that. Heck, I'll just keep living dangeroisly and try it. Next thing you know I'll be thinking about switching to a Universal!

No, wait a minute, scratch that.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 25 Nov 2011 8:24 pm

Guitars don't read spec sheets. Whether other factors affect that criteria, I don't know. Different guitars break strings at different rates though. I've observed this over 35 yrs. of playing them. There are differences in the way the strings feel on top with your hands.

Now, I don't know if it's leverage point, but something causes variations. F.I., my keyless Williams 400 never broke a 12 ga. 3rd. string in 2 yrs. of playing it nor any other string.

My 25" keyless Sierras snapped 3rds with annoying regularity. 11's or 12's. My Mullen guitars are 2nd in string breakage.

Least 3rd. string breakage, Williams, Zum and Emmons P/P in that order. All 24 1/4" scale.

It's always going to be 12's for me on everything but the Zum where I'm still using 13's, at least for the time being.

There's all sizes and kinds of strings out there. Use whatever you want.

L. A. Wunder · Post by **L. A. Wunder** » 25 Nov 2011 10:51 pm

I wouldn't try it.

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 26 Nov 2011 8:37 am

Measure the strings with a good micrometer and you can find a variations in the diameters of up to + or - .0005. I did this with my .011 and .0115 strings when I had ordered both and found they were within .0001 of each other. If you use a .013 gauge, you could easlily have a .0135 which would break according to discussions above.

So, if you want to have tighter dimension control on the strings, be prepared to pay considerably more for them.

(I have used .011, .0115, and .012 strings for my G# string for years and they all would break, usually after the third gig.)

Thanx,
Jim

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 26 Nov 2011 11:48 am

I believe a mechanical foot is in order. One that presses the pedals continuously. Record the time that the 3rd string sustained the constant pulling up to pitch without breaking. I am suggesting that the finger picks lifting the strings, may promote the breaking point pitch. The singular no picking pedal experiment would help to explain the dilemma. Any make or model steel would suffice to help solve the problem. Just a thought...