Separating C pedal functions, is anyone else doibg it?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Oct 2011 12:57 am

In that Tenth fret thread, B0b said he put the E string component of the C pedal on his bump lever.
I ain't gonna evict my A#, but the idea of separating the pulls opens up cool possibilities to my mind.
Is anyone else doing this?
I don't know whether I would rather cluster, like LKOL or go Retro old-school style and just double the travel and add a half stop at F. I'm intrigued and weighing pros and cons.
Or am I just a goofball?

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 28 Oct 2011 4:39 am

Lane
that was an interesting change that b0b mentioned - I thought I might give it a try .
the Bb VL has always been one I try to avoid -- for me its an uncomfortable lever but maybe the use of F# to get a + 7 change - might work for me.

I think that is what b0b was talking about -- maybe he will comment here

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Oct 2011 5:17 am

I agree it's not very comfortable. I find the A# lives there better than the previous occupant, 1st +½ and 6th -1.
When B0b mentioned he did this, my brain perked up; staggering the pulls of 4 & 5 just just sounds schweeet.
I've long resisted the very thought of a cluster (three levers per knee is enough for Lloyd and Buddy ...), but I don't think I would wanna boot one of the 5 to P9. And I think the wrist lever a la Johnny Cox is strange, and Al Petty's heel pedals are goofy (no offense to either gentleman).
Which leaves LKOL or LKOR, or doubling the F lever, in which case I'd want a half stop at E# (sorry: the third of a C# chord ain't F, F natural is a diminished fourth).
But I do think B0b is onto something cool.

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 28 Oct 2011 5:33 am

Having E>F# on the vertical lever is very handy; much quicker than moving your foot sideways. Whether it's comfy or not is a matter of placement and adjustment range; on my previous Emmons Legrande II it was very awkward, but on my present Zum it's positioned just right for a quick and easy kick upwards.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Oct 2011 6:03 am

Interesting. So where does your A# live?
I can see that it actually might be more comfy than the A#, since nearly every time it gets used, the foot is on A, B or both.
Do you raise both Es or just 4

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 28 Oct 2011 6:22 am

Actually I don't have the B>A# move at all; never tried it so I don't know what I'm missing

I only raise the 4th string with the vertical lever. When I ordered my Zum I wanted that raise on the 8th string as well, but Bruce Zumsteg advised against it, probably because the move would require more than twice the force with both strings attached. But no. 4 alone is fine.

This vertical lever was not my own idea at all, it just happened to be installed that way on the very first pro-level steel I bought 30 years ago (a 3+6 Swedish AVM Eagle) and I immediately found it very useful.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 28 Oct 2011 6:30 am

On my old Sierra I could stagger the 5th and 4th by using the bump (B-A#). But then again you're talking about delaying the E to F# raise to stagger. Since then, I've learned to do okay without my B-Bb move because I guess there are so many other ways to get what I need. If I had a verticle lever, I wouldn't mind losing the B drop to try this move. However, that move though also came in handy for getting a diminished chord..bump + B&C, and a quick minor with A&B.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Oct 2011 6:34 am

I've had that A# change since it was my first "round-the-corner" slant on Dobro: if you have the Mike Auldridge/Jeff Newman record "Slidin' Smoke" Mike built the tune "Buck Dancer" around that ½step drop of the fifth tone.

Brett Lanier · Post by **Brett Lanier** » 28 Oct 2011 9:55 am

Terry Wendt (aka two-pedal Terry)

Fred Justice · Post by **Fred Justice** » 28 Oct 2011 11:25 am

Try this, has worked good for me many years now.
http://www.fredjusticemusic.com/id14.html

Brett Lanier · Post by **Brett Lanier** » 28 Oct 2011 12:08 pm

nice setup Fred!

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 28 Oct 2011 1:59 pm

since very early on in my incredible career i've had...
pedal 1...g#'s to a
......2...b's to c#
......3...g#'s to g
......4...b's to bb

......e to f# on rkr
......e's to eb on rkl
......e's to f on lkr

(and several more mystery levers)

thatz why i are so great and special..!!

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 28 Oct 2011 2:40 pm

I have the 4th string E>F# on RKL
From the G chord at the 10th fret with A+B down, just add E>F# on RKL for the Em chord.
I still have steels with a traditional C pedal, though.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 29 Oct 2011 1:34 am

I have two BMI S-12 pedal steels, one with 8 & 5 and one with 6 & 5. On the 8 pedal guitar I have my 4th string E to F# raise on pedal 8 by itself and it's used with the right foot. On the 6 pedal guitar the same change is on pedal 6 and also used with the right foot..........JH in Va.

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 29 Oct 2011 6:53 am

I just put the E-F# on my LKV and ( IMO ) it makes perfect sense and has a natural feel .

thanks for bringing the subject up Lane

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 29 Oct 2011 8:13 am

I used to raise the 4th string to F# on my first 2 guitars but then I learned to use the C pedal quickly. I would still have it if I had an extra knee lever.

I'll have to check it out today when I play a gig, but I believe I put the 4th string to F# on my 9th pedal on my Carter. Don't know if I left it on there though.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Oct 2011 10:29 am

Bob, do you have the A# change, and if so, where?
I'm definitely leaning towards this change, but not sure where to put it.
Likely candidates are LKOR, P9, or possibly LKL, doubling the range of the F lever and adding a half stop.

Georg Sørtun · Post by **Georg Sørtun** » 29 Oct 2011 10:50 am

Have had E-F-F# on LKL since -88 on a Dekley, and recently put E-F-F# on LKV on a GFI. Works well on both.

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 29 Oct 2011 12:22 pm

Sorry Lane -- I don’t have that change .

although I have been dragging a steel with me for the last 60 years , you guys are way ahead of me in what you need -- however this E to F# on the LKV just works grate for me -- I never used the Bb when it was on that V lever , I always used slants if needed - just old school I guess .

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Oct 2011 1:29 pm

Slants rule. Them and finger pulls. Did you know if you pull the first string to G#, you usually end up pulling D# to E? Of course I have pedal 0 for that now.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 30 Oct 2011 10:35 am

Raising E to F# on LKV is second nature to me. I've been doing it for 33 years. (Now that I'm playing D6th it's D to E, but it's the same reflex action.) I don't really recommend it to others, though, because:

the B lower to A# is a more valuable change for LKV
the Mooney bounce doesn't sound right on a lever
you lose some of the C pedal stuff that leaves the 10th string unchanged
it creates a lot of stress in the leg muscles
instructional material doesn't support it

Of course, some of these are moot if you keep the C pedal too, but that's an extra rodding complication underneath the guitar with 3 raises on one string. Been there, done that, and it usually isn't pretty. $:\$

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 30 Oct 2011 11:08 am

Thanks for the info b0b --- I kept the C ped function in tact , as it worked out on my old Fender I was able to add a rod that pushed that bell-crank on the C pedal - ( Now i have a Push Pull Fender ) -- This is not so I could do the Moony bounce , it just happened that way -- I will let Mr. Moon alone , every time I think i can pull that off I just look / sound stupid .

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 30 Oct 2011 2:11 pm

Since Zane King hasn't popped in here, I will point out that he places his "C" pedal next to his "A" pedal, but it raises G# to A along with E to F# and leaves the B alone.

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 1 Nov 2011 9:56 pm

I've had my E to F# (string 4) change on RKL since I started playing. It seemed to belong there and I wonder how much hassle it must be to get that change with pedal C. Of course I'm in the minority here--most people do it that way. It seems like more trouble. With it on the knee, I use it all the time with pedals A and B. My C pedal raises string 5 (B) to C# and string 6 (G#) to Bb. Like b0b, I play 12-string universal so my C pedal mimics a pedal commonly used on the C6 neck on D-10 guitars. It works in B6 mode--as we call--it as well as E9 mode. Here's the setup I use:

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 1 Nov 2011 10:25 pm

The C pedal in my setup works in the B6 mode and E9 mode. The E to F# isn't used in B6 mode. Universal setups lower the Es (strings 4 and

to create a B6 chord--or Eb minor--depending. Hence that E is lowered and no point raising a whole tone at the same time. My pedal 6 does raise it back to E while being lowered via the E lever and it lowers string 8 another half--it's called a split and creates the 4 chord with dominant 7 (while in B6 mode).

Sorry for the chapter on universal. Raising the E to F# on string 4 is cool--try it. Don't do it in B6 mode.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Separating C pedal functions, is anyone else doibg it?

Separating C pedal functions, is anyone else doibg it?

E to F# on a knee lever

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