The versatility of tunings

[Mike Neer]

There are times when I feel like I've made good headway and I've unlocked many of the possibilities, but the deeper and deeper I get into C6/A7, the more I discover. I have to say, for playing Jazz, Blues, Rock, Western Swing, Country and just about anything else you can throw it at, C6/A7 can do it all. I really dig C13, too, just not as much.

I guess you can say that the only limitations of a tuning is really the player, but for me there specific things I think makes a tuning most useable and versatile. I have to have certain intervals: min3rd, maj3rd, 4ths, b5 or #4, maj2nd. These intervals give me the most of what I need.

Please forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but there are always new players who are looking for a tuning to get started with. C6 is often a turn-off for some players because it is a little confusing at first for guitar players, and some other perceive it as being for Hawaiian only (Brad, you should remove that little quote "everything sounds Hawaiian" from your description on the Page of Steel ), but trust me when I tell you, it isn't. There is so much there. The key to really playing these tunings on a lap steel is getting your right hand together. It is a little difficult to imagine at first that you'll be able to avoid strings and zero in on just the ones you want to pick, but with practice it definitely becomes easier. Some of the guys around here, like Doug Beaumier and Roy Thomson, have a really accurate right hand for chordal playing.

When I started out, I was trying to invent my own tunings, if only because the only tunings I knew of were G and D. I wanted something that sounded a little more nebulous (the major 3rd really bugged me because i couldn't avoid it) and which could be more versatile. But the more I did that, the further away I got from learning. At some point I realized I needed to put the time in to get my right hand a bit tighter so I could be in control more.

There are a lot of other tunings that I really like, personally: E, C#min7, E9, E13, A6, B11--all of the proven classic tunings. If you listen, there are guys playing the crap out of all of them. A6 is one that is excellent, but personally I have one issue with it: I prefer to have a tritone interval in my tuning, such as in C6/A7 where the lower C gets tuned up to C#. If you do this in A6 (tune the low A up to A#), I feel like the note is too low and less useful. A6 can be very muddy on the bottom.

E9 (E B G# F# D B G# E) is a great tuning, too, because you can play a lot of riffs on the bass strings, which makes it excellent for Rock and Roll, Rockabilly, etc. Also, strings 2-4 are the same structure as strings 2-4 of C6, just 1/2 step lower.
E13 is also excellent for chordal work and single note playing (E C# B G# F# D B G#--there are several variations on the bottom strings). You can get a great variety of chords for jazz from these two tunings, including quartal chords (built in 4ths), 13ths, #9s, min7b5, etc.

I miss being able to get quartal chords in C6/A7, but with 2 necks (C6/A7 and E9 or 13), I have the bases covered.

Like I said, the possibilities are seemingly endless. It really comes down to you and what your preference is: not everyone sees things the same way. But my one piece of advice is to give it time. You will not get it overnight. The process can be very frustrating, especially if you already know how to play another instrument, but it takes a good solid year or more of dedicated practice.

I haven't been doing much recording lately, but here are a few examples of what you can get from C6/A7. These are Steely Dan tunes that were played exclusively on steel in that tuning, both rhythm and melody:

Josie

Deacon Blues

I don't want to come off like I'm tooting my own horn--I'm not. It's just that most will agree that Steely Dan chord changes can be pretty sophisticated and this proves that it is possible in C6/A7.

[Hal Braun]

Mike,

On an 8 string would you use:

A C C# E G A C E or
B A C# E G A C E

others?

thanks!

[Mike Neer]

This is what I use, if that's what you're asking:

E
C
A
G
E
C# sometimes C
A sometimes Bb
F sometimes F# or G

[Hal Braun]

Thats exactly what I was getting after

Thanks!

[L. Bogue Sandberg]

Mike,

I've fooled around with a G6/E7 on my eight string resonator guitar (D B G E D B G# E), i.e., C6/A7 lowered 5 frets. It's nice, but I've run into an interesting problem. It seems that the vibration of the resonator causes the G# to "hum" in second or higher mode when a straight G chord is picked, giving a very dissonant undercurrent. It can be cured by damping the G# with the thumb in front of the bar, but I'm not used to doing that. Do you experience this problem at all with an electric steel?

The problem isn't obvious with my everyday G13 (D B G E D B G F) or the A11 that comes from dropping the D to C# and the F to E. But they both seem to have the potential for it, given a pair of strings an octave and a half step apart.

Any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated.

Bogue

[Mike Neer]

I would guess that, because the bridge of the resonator excites the cone, any strings that are not blocked are going to vibrate, causing them to be audible. You might want to employ palm blocking to mute that string.

I don't have this experience with my electric steels and I don't ever recall this issue with my resos. I think it could be a blocking issue.

[L. Bogue Sandberg]

My palm blocking has come quite a ways, but will always be a work-in-progress. It does help, but in the situation I'm trying to describe, I can't palm block string 7 while leaving strings 3, 5, and 6 free to ring. That's where the left thumb comes in.

After sitting down with the guitar again, the dissonance is most evident when playing up the neck. And there appears to be a solution. And doggone it, I'm not going to let you electric guys have all the fun!

Thanks to Mike and all the other people who make this forum such a valued resource. You can't imagine how isolated I'd be without it.

[Mike Neer]

How you hold the bar has a lot to do with it. If you move the bar off the strings that don't need to be played, you can block behind the bar. Also, like you mentioned, using the left thumb is a huge help. All of these techniques can be practiced so that they become seamless in your playing.

[Mike Neer]

By the way, of course it is true that if you are into the Blues style that is like bottleneck open tuning, tuning your lap steel to something like open D or G (low bass) will give you slide guitar on steroids. If that is your bag, then there is not substitute for that. But if you are playing Jump Blues or west coast Blues and styles like that, C6 or C13 or whichever will really put a lot of stuff under your fingers that the D or G tunings won't. If you are playing a lot of single line stuff and even simple harmonies, it is a lot easier to deal with.

[Kekoa Blanchet]

Insightful and enlightening as always, Mike. Many thanks for your ongoing contributions to our basic understanding of the principles we're dealing with.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on two related questions. First, do you feel the same way about 6 string tunings, or do the alternative tunings help make up for some of the limitations or missing features of having only 6 strings? Second, do you feel the same way about tunings for acoustic steel guitars (resonators, Weissenborns, etc.)?

[David Matzenik]

As Kekoa said:"very insightful" and if I was recommnending a tuning to a beginner, it would be C6 for electric guitar. However, the thread titled "Is theory really necessary?" ran to something of a conclusion without a definitive answer. I don't see how anyone can understand Mike's initial post, or take full advantage of any tuning without a knowledge of music theory.

[Mike Neer]

There was a time when I didn't understand advanced harmony--I always knew about how to build chords, but I can't say I understood the functions or even what they sounded like. I remember being about 12 and looking at the Mel Bay Chord Encyclopedia with my uncle saying, "No one is ever going to play these chords," pointing to something that was probably a 13b9 chord or something along those lines. He said, "Yes, they do." It wasn't until I heard Herbie Hancock with Miles playing Stella By Starlight that I really became hungry to learn about those "other" chords.

We have to start somewhere, right? If the steel guitar is going to continue to grow beyond the traditions, we'll all have to learn the language that the other instrumentalists speak. I'll be frank: I don't really see any limits to the possibilities. It is so wide open. Learning a little bit of music theory goes a long way to being able to communicate with others and begin to understand the process. It's not absolutely necessary, but I think it is.

Kekoa, I do feel the same about 6 string tunings. I want certain elements in there so I can get my sound, such as being able to play dominant 7th chords and chords with altered upper extensions, such as 7#9--sounds you will recognize when you hear, but may not know what they are. C6/A7 ala Jerry Byrd is hard to beat. Also, it depends on the style.

As far as acoustic steels, depending on the style, of course, but I feel that those instruments are more often better suited to harmonious tunings (non-dissonant notes). Straight up tunings like high bass A or G, D, etc. really take advantage of the instrument's timbre and just feel and sound right. You can play around with them and change notes to other diatonic notes and get good results, too, such as rsising the 2nd string in a D tuning to B. Many possibilities, but I never had too much luck with the more "close" tunings (C6, for example)--others have, though.

I'm certainly no expert, just an experimenter like everyone else. I'm always trying to look forward, but I can appreciate the wisdom of the past.

[Steve Ahola]

8 strings vs 6 strings:

While it is nice having 8 strings, most of the time you can get by with the 6 strings on top or the 6 strings in the middle. I like to look at 8 string tunings to get ideas on how to tune my growing menagerie of 6 stringers.

I've wanted to use an E13th tuning like Don Helms used but I can't spare one of my 8 stringers for that so I'm going to restring my 1948 Gibson Century 6 with the top 6 strings on Don Helms' E13th, which happens to be exactly like the C6 tuning with the E on top, only pitched 4 frets higher. (You don't need the low notes to get Don's "high lonesome sound". )

By lowering the 4th string one fret you get the F#9 6 string tuning that Mike Neer used for his video tutorial of Speedy West's "Flippin' The Lid".
E13th (high):
G#, E, C#, B, G#, E
F#9:
G#, E, C#, A#, G#, E

Steve Ahola

[Daniel Policarpo]

Mike, I completely agree with your post. I Started on the lap steel journey as a means to bridge my guitar experience toward pedal steel. So I tried using tunings that I thought would faciltate that easier, like some bastardized E9 tunings. I could get some sounds, but ultimately these just confused the issue more and didn't result in me getting very many songs down. So I tried C6 again, and stuck with it, and I am finding joy in the lapsteel as its own thing, not a lesser version of a pedal steel. I am playing alot more and getting more satisfaction out of what I am playing.

The biggest thing is that I am playing the melodies and chords, and not just patterns now. I can improvise okay, and I am finding my own means of getting that honky tonk vibe from the early 60's I enjoy the most. There aren't any shortcuts in this thing, but C6 has allowed me to concentrate on my slants, blocking, ear training, etc. instead of constantly looking for little changes in tunings that ultimately use a lot of time that could be spent learning and playing music. I don't try to make the lapsteel sound like a pedal steel, anymore. I am finding a lot of mileage in twangy honky tonk land as a C6/A7 die hard, Thanks! Dan

[Mike Neer]

Dan, thanks for your input. It sounds like you've really been building a solid foundation. After we do that, the sky's the limit--we can work on other things, like our musicianship in general.

[chris ivey]

mike, i've never spent much time with my lapsteel, but have come to the realization i need to get very familiar with c6 (6 string) first. when you are playing with the c raised to c# do you spend much time on that low string?

[Mike Neer]

Chris, I spent a lot of time using that C#--it plays a part in just about every dominant chord I play. Having that diminished triad on adjacent strings like that is invaluable for me.

[Matthew Dawson]

I'm really enjoying the Steely Dan tunes. Very smooth!

[Thomas Temple]

Being a newbie I try to follow the various discussions about tuning options but my problem is that I keep breaking strings when I try to change tunings. None of my local music shops carry "steel guitar" strings and so I have settled for GHS 11s at this point in time. What would anyone suggest I order to be able to change up a bit on tunings until I find my niche? Or do you need to change gauges every time you change tunings?

[Mike Neer]

Thomas, if you purchase your steel guitar strings through http://www.steelguitarshopper.com/ or Just Strings, you can find sets for specific tunings--however, some tunings and their appropriate string sets are easily retuneable to other tunings with no problems. Check out the variations on a C6 set of strings (6 string set)


C6--->A6---> E9
E----->E------->E
C----->C#------>B
A----->A------->G#
G----->F#------>F#
E----->E------->D
C----->C#------>B

Using one set of C6 strings, I was able to get 2 variations (they are also widely used tunings) and there are also several others. You have to be in the right ballpark with the string gauges to begin with. If you wanted to tune to a high G C6, then obviously you'd need a different string set.

[Thomas Temple]

Thanks for the info, guess my best bet is to get a set of strings for C6th tuning and not stray to far above or below. Which is fine with me. BTW I now have a Starfire 6 string and am awaiting a new Melbert 6 string (ordered and being built in C6th tuning). Not 100% sure what I am going to do with the Starfire but thinking that maybe I should string and tune that to maybe an E9th? Any thoughts on that would be appreciated as well.

[Robert Murphy]

I have been working on the advantages of the 6 string A11 tuning for two years now. Hi to lo DBGEC#A. if you lay that out on the fret board you can get 20 different C chords without slants. At fret 1 CM7 & CM9 no root, CM13, Cm6 no 5th. Fret 3 CM, Csus4, Cadd9, C7, C9, C9sus4, C11. Fret 5 C6, C 6/9. Fret 8 Cm, Cm6, Cm7, Cm7sus4. Fret 11 C dim, Cdim7, Cm7b5. Those are 3,4,5&6 note chords. I play mostly chord fills and back up on Dobro and lap steel. I haven't even mentioned the implied chords. This will take me the rest of my life. (Old slow learner.)

[Steve Green]

Thomas, if you purchase your steel guitar strings through http://www.steelguitarshopper.com/ or Just Strings, you can find sets for specific tunings--however, some tunings and their appropriate string sets are easily retuneable to other tunings with no problems. Check out the variations on a C6 set of strings (6 string set)


C6--->A6---> E9
E----->E------->E
C----->C#------>B
A----->A------->G#
G----->F#------>F#
E----->E------->D
C----->C#------>B

Using one set of C6 strings, I was able to get 2 variations (they are also widely used tunings) and there are also several others. You have to be in the right ballpark with the string gauges to begin with. If you wanted to tune to a high G C6, then obviously you'd need a different string set.

To add to Mike's post, with a set of C6th strings, you can also get:

B11th -- and -- Leavitt
E---------------------D
C#--------------------C
A---------------------Bb
F#--------------------G
D#--------------------E
B---------------------C#

And probably MANY more.

[Tom Cooper]

I totally love my A6 tuning. Dont get the deep bass thing though. Mine cuts through real nice. I have it on a Gibson Consolette with E9/13. My A6 has G 26 gauge on bottom tuned to dom7, sometimes maj7. Still use slants for 7th chords but comes in handy for in line use. Dont get the tritone thing jet but hope to soon. Really like my deep 3rds and would hate to loose them. The guy from the Wios tunes to G6 and he never sounded muddy. He showed me the 26 gauge G on bottom also. Guess its all personal taste. That's whats so cool about steel guitar. Really like how you can personalize even standard tunings. Really cool to see A6 being talked about. To me it just makes more sense to use esp. with E13. Seems like more broad range together. Love my A6.

[Steve Ahola]

I totally love my A6 tuning.

Can you spell out the notes in your tuning? Thanks!

Steve Ahola