Anyone tried the Carvin BX500 tube preamp/amp?

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 1 Sep 2011 3:10 pm

Flipping pages through the new Carvin catalog, this 5 lb bass amp head amp with tons of power, 12AX7 preamp tube, parametric EQ, and 9-slider graphic EQ, looks pretty amazing and might sound great with a steel. Works in the 10hz-20K range, that covers what we use.

http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/s ... duct=BX500

Anyone tried one and have a report, or insights as to whether this has the potential to be a good rack gizmo for pedal steel?

If not, I'll have to run down to their Santa Ana store and kick some tires.

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 1 Sep 2011 3:25 pm

I fear class D power supplies. They tend to break, and are very difficult to repair. I'm sure you'll get a few good years out of it... but then what? Where will you be when it ceases to function?

These new gizmos are really feature heavy, which is great, but also can work against the natural tone of the instrument.

Marketing 101: if you add more features, people will want your product.

Audio 101: if you keep it simple, it sounds better

These two theories clearly are not friends, but I recommend avoiding the marketing concept and sticking with a clean simple audio path. Unfortunately, these beautiful simple products are not easy to find but they do exist!

Ellis Miller · Post by **Ellis Miller** » 3 Sep 2011 6:11 am

I would suggest that anyone seriously considering buying Carvin equipment read the policy on repair and replacement on their website. Most of the friendly neighborhood repair shops are not able to service their units and Carvin has a flat rate repair/replacement policy that may not work in the consumer's favor.

That said, I own a couple of pieces of Carvin equipment and have found their warranty service to be very good. The concern emerges when the gear goes off warranty. At that point much of their gear becomes disposable.

Not saying you shouldn't go for it, just do your homework and check the math.

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 4 Sep 2011 1:19 pm

Thanks for the perspectives on Carvin, Ellis and Tim. I'll file a report if I do find time to go to their local retail store and try the BX500 out.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 5 Sep 2011 10:56 pm

John, i own this little amp. It sounds just fantastic. I have owned more Carvin gear in the past 20 years, then i dare say anyone else on the forum. And i currently own a four channel Class D power amp, that runs cooler, quieter, and is less weight then most. All the major musical gear companies are going to classD. Not a bit of trouble out of any of my carvin gear, be it a mixer, wireless system, power amp, powered PA speaker, guitar amp, or this little BX500 bass amp. Our group uses carvin PA speakers as well. The BX500 is built like a tank, light, has a great graphic EQ on them. Far from being "disposable" gear. My dad purchased steel guitars from carvin as far back as 1946. A great american manu. I like my BX500. It fits in my jacket pocket!

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 6 Sep 2011 12:03 am

George, thanks for your report!

To all: aren't most of the newer, much lighter weight power amps Class D? (Gallen Kreuger MB 200; Stewart World 1.2; etc.). Seems to be a pretty popular amp trend these days. Love to hear more techy pros & cons about them, chime in, folks. How do they SOUND? Are they ideal for coupling with a Rev preamp? And is the amp in a TC Furlong powered cab a class D? I know the amp looks tiny.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 6 Sep 2011 6:32 am

Isn't The Evans AH200 a 5 pound Class D amp?

http://www.evansamps.com/products/amplifiers/ah200

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 6 Sep 2011 7:46 am

Yeah - most of the new stuff is class D

It will be outlived by fender gear that is already 40+ years old

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 6 Sep 2011 7:41 pm

Yep..not the new reissue Fender stuff won't last 40 years, lucky if you get a couple.....And you figure in tubes, transformers, repaires, to that old dinosaur stuff. I could purchase 6 or 8 little BX500 amps, with change left over for a hernia operation from toting the old heavy amps. And they sound fantastic. naw...give me neodymium, and Class D...

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 6 Sep 2011 8:57 pm

thats all fine... until you consider your energy and waste footprint.

You only need to make that old Fender amp once, and with proper maintenance it lives longer than you do. And works!

That pile of 8 Carvin amps that you buy lives longer than you do too - but not working. When they die they either go to landfill, or to electronic "recycling" which is basically a 3rd world country where there are no regulations and the plastic can be burned to get the copper out. Air is air... eventually it makes its way back here and the next generation has unexplainable health issues.

Wouldn't you rather buy 1 good amp, make it last forever, hand it down through 3-4 generations, and not have to throw it away?

Maybe I am just a San Francisco hippie... but for me that choice is easy!

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 6 Sep 2011 9:45 pm

So, Tim, suppose I wanted to build a rack system: Revelation preamp; TC Electronics Nova system (or maybe G Major 2 rack unit instead); what power amp would you recommend to go with that gear? Light weight would be nice, but let's first look at durability and raw clean musical power. Thanks for your input!

Very good points about environmental impact; sadly, most stuff is throwaway nowadays and too expensive to repair. And the damage to other countries' populations, where environmental regulations are virtually non-existent, is very alarming, I've seen horrors on some TV programs on that subject.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 7 Sep 2011 7:43 am

You're cutting the class D products short. Not sure where you're getting your info from, but a well built class D power amp will last for years. Not sure where you got your misguided info from. I would like you to show me an opinon from the builders of these products as to expectations of use, and life expectancy of Class D products.

I suggest you visit some of the forums of the manu's that build these products. Ask a few questions, keep an open mind, and speak with the users. Evans amps told me the only way to go was class D. They are here for the long haul, Evans doesn't build junk believe me.

So far these products have a very impressive track record. You can't get more enviornmentally wasteful then worn out transformers, tubes, resistors etc, all prone to failure because of heat. Class D products for the most part are transformerless. Run cooler then any other type of power amp in it's class. Like i said, the manu's and owners like myself who have used these products for the past few years will respectfully disagree with you sir.

I've owned heavy fender twins, and heavy power amps, that would over heat at an outdoor high volume situation, and know the high cost to use and maintain these amps. And i have used Class D for the past 5 or 6 years with no problems what so ever. I can even bridge down to 2ohms at 3,000 watts RMS all day long, hour after hour, after hour, in the hot sun outdoors. So you are a little misguided on their reliability record, and life expectancy. Their track records speak for themselves. If they were unreliable, they wouldn't build them. Cost of usage per watt, has your old fender beat hands down. Like i said, Neodymium, and class D, only way to go. And more steel players are finding this out. Thats why Evans is building a 200 watt RMS, 5 pound class D steel amp that will fit in your pocket. You get the best of both words. The reliability, low maint, low cost of operation per watt, and use of less power, so they're enviornmentally friendly. Plus the warmth of a tube pre. It's a win win situation. It's the future, i'm glad to see the manu's making changes to help us buy less costly, reliable, great sounding amps, power amps, mic preamps, rack units. My hat off to them. They have my support. About all i will say on the subject. I own several Class D products. I love'em. Have a wonderful day.

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 7 Sep 2011 9:59 am

George, you include "warmth of a tube pre" in your recent praise of Class D. That apply to all Class D amps, or just to the BX500 and others that do have an actual tube? Thanks for clarifying.

Any steelers using the Peavey Class D power amps? Feedback?

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 7 Sep 2011 12:07 pm

George Redmon wrote: Like i said, the manu's and owners like myself who have used these products for the past few years will respectfully disagree with you sir.

ok - talk to me in 40 years! We will see what is still working and what is in the trash... I'm putting my money on the hand wired amps with transformers and tubes

I can confidently say this because there is only 1 track record by which we can actually rely on, and that is the fact that the tube equipment from the 50's and 60's is still here today. Much of it working. A "few years" is not very confidence inspiring

This reminds me of the conversation audiophiles had about records versus CD's back in the day. CD's were this great new technology that made records obsolete. Or so the world thought. Look at the state of the world now: CDs are on their way out, the 50 year old records are still playable, and no one liked the way CDs sounded in the first place. There are mountains of CD's in the trash that are unreadable and mountains of vinyl in music stores still fetching their original value.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 7 Sep 2011 4:58 pm

I'm putting my money on the hand wired amps with transformers and tubes

Huh??? are you seriously trying to compare a hand wired point to point custom built amp to a $379 mass produced china made job?? shame on you..lol

http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/s ... duct=BX500

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 7 Sep 2011 5:40 pm

thats exactly what I am trying to do!

I think the "China made job" is not even worth the $379. That money could be put to better use, in my opinion. Especially when it quits on you right when you don't want it to. Which it will do.

I think I was born into the wrong time or something - because this whole disposable electronics movement is really depressing to me. I like the concept of use it up, wear it out, if it breaks then... well, fix the damn thing and continue to use it. Or, sell it to someone. Who wants to buy something high risk used?

Remember televisions? VCR's? All these things used to be repairable items and are now "China made jobs" that are disposable. I fear that amplifiers and musical equipment are heading in that same direction... except!! We can stop it.

Every dollar you spend is a vote. If you spend it on disposable cheap China gear, you are gonna vote us hand wired guys off the island!

Sorry if I seem insane, but this is something that I honestly believe in.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 7 Sep 2011 6:06 pm

Well, not going to get into politics about it. Enough said on the subject. I am just thankful with my medical problems, that i can purchase a five pound,great sounding amplifier suitable for use in any playing conditions, for a price the working musician can afford. Everything is made over seas nowdays, just a fact of life. Enjoy your amp, and i will enjoy mine. But junk? hardly. Have a blessed day.

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 7 Sep 2011 6:24 pm

I think I need to find my channel changer...

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 7 Sep 2011 6:31 pm

The Stewart world 1.2 works great John. Mine has been used for the last 6 years or so and completely trouble free. Its clean, doesn't overheat, dependable and more power than I'll ever need.. It does work real well with the Revelation pre as well.
Hook

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 10 Sep 2011 8:55 am

thanks for the comment (on topic!) Hook.

For anyone: does the brand of power amp have an effect on psg tone, or does it simply not matter? Does a Furlong power amp sound better than others, etc.?

Thanks.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 12 Sep 2011 1:22 pm

Hey Hook:

Did you ever try the 1.2 Stewart amp bridged in mono? I have several of these power amps used with my GP-100 with the preamp shut off and use the effects only. I experiment with different preamps and actually prefer one speaker.

Lenny

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 12 Sep 2011 9:37 pm

I'm not yet set up with preamp/power amps, just trying to figure out best way to do that, if I choose that route. Just wondering if power amp contributes to tone, or not.

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 12 Sep 2011 10:35 pm

I think next to your hands, the power amp contributes the most to tone. The speaker factors in there too. Somewhere on that list is the instrument itself but it's *below* the amp believe it or not.

The old adage goes: an expensive instrument out of a cheap amp sounds bad but a cheap instrument out of an expensive amp sounds good.

The amp does a lot - I may get laughed out of the room for a second time here, but until you have heard your steel through a boutique quality amp you have not really heard it. Comparing $300-500 amps is not worth doing, in my opinion. It's like comparing a Yugo to a Ford Festiva. All of those inexpensive amps are built the same - they use similar chips, similar power supplies, similar cost cutting materials... Chips are good with dip, that's about it

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 13 Sep 2011 3:15 am

I have mentioned this before , but I will say it again .....

When dealing with higher end gear , you are getting gear that is built from better components , and hopefully better craftsmanship .....If put together correctly, and the components play nicely together , there is nothing better .....

For all intents and purposes , most of the guys on this forum are weekend warriors .....They play a gig or two a week , and some don't get out to do that much .... By the time you get set up and you're playing with the band , and the volume is up pretty high , and people are talking and dancing , chances are that you are not going to hear the difference between a good setup and a GREAT setup .... It all boils down to HOW MUCH is your tone worth to you ? ..... How much are you willing to pay for your tone ? ..... How much weight are you willing to carry to have the tone you want ? ..... An old girlfriend of mine had a GREAT Bose system in her car ....It sounded FABULOUS ......My system was so so in my truck .....She listens to AM radio talk shows ....When playing music thru our systems , she couldn't tell the difference !!!.....I told her to have her ears checked !!.... My point is that to some , it doesn't matter if they have the best tone on the planet .... A tone that puts a smile on their face is fine with them ....Others have to have the best of the best ..... You can buy decent gear that does not break the bank for a reasonable amount of money , and then you can get high end gear that will cost you 3 or 4 times the price , that will only sound maybe 10% better .....It's that 10% that you are paying so much money for , but some can't live without it ..... I'm not saying it's wrong ....I'm just saying that it is what it is !!..... How much is your tone worth ? ........JIm

BTW ....YES , and amp does have a lot to do with the tone of your instrument , and so does the preamp, and so do the speakers , and so does the instrument ....The tone comes from the sum of the parts .....One is just as important as the other ...Jim

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 13 Sep 2011 7:32 am

I appreciate all the input so far from everyone. Keep it coming!

All good points, and James, your points are right on. I'm a long time pro player, I've always been known for great tone, and I definitely have finely tuned ears. I've played D-10 and D-12 MSA's, and now a Mullen, through my vintage Webb amp, and various rack FX, currently ProFex II and Lexicon MPX 110, plus Boss CS2 compressor and Visual Sound Route 808 overdrive stomps on the floor.

But I'm new to the components approach (preamp, amp, cab & speaker), so all advice is welcome and helpful.

Two things kicked off this research: at stage volume, my good old Webb has a bit of hiss that no one can get rid of. It's been to Ken Fox, and Tom Bradshaw and his Webb staff for a complete refresh, but it's still there. Not too noticeable onstage, but a problem in studio work. Wish I knew how to cure that, that's the only real issue behind all this research; any ideas, gang? Tonally, the Webb has always been beautiful and amazing.

Just a few days ago I did find a low volume setting that almost eliminates the hiss when recording, so that was a relief. FYI: sensitivity at zero; volume about 1.5; max highs, max lows, about 3 on mids; 5-band EQ not used; tone switch set far right.

The other event was earlier this year, playing my Mullen D-12 through Jerry Newberry's rig: Sarno Revelation preamp; Lexicon MPX-1; I think a Stewart power amp; and whatever cab/speaker he uses, didn't get the details on that. That setup really boosted and clarified the bottom end of my playing, loved it.

I will demo the Carvin BX500 which started this thread, I live near 2 of their stores, I'll report back here on that experience.

So help me find beautiful, clean, noise-free tone, members, and I'll be very appreciative.