Wood Wars, Gibson again.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 26 Aug 2011 7:47 am

Not really steel guitar news, but probably of interest. The Govt. has raided Gibson again. Also some facts about traveling with guitars.

http://tinyurl.com/3tlbr53

Steven Finley · Post by **Steven Finley** » 26 Aug 2011 8:17 am

Thanks for posting the link. I used to have a ZB Custom with Front ebony apron, rear ebony apron, and ebony neck.
Good thing I no longer have it or my government might seize my tools of the trade. Seems that the neighborhood thugs are amateurs compared to this.

Could this be why the new MSA's are carbon fiber body?

Check out your steels before gigging in Europe, etc.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 26 Aug 2011 8:46 am

Gibson gets raided again,but the stream of fake Gibsons(not Epiphones-these frauds say "Gibson") from China flows merrily along.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 26 Aug 2011 8:59 am

the horror never stops
oh well, Freedom's gettin' whittled down even more

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 26 Aug 2011 9:08 am

What pain in the ass, doesn't this beaurocratic B***S*** ever stop!! $:\$

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 26 Aug 2011 9:36 am

That's true Bob. There is a lot of theorizing in the article. But the Gibson raid, and what happened to the piano guy are facts. Worrisome facts.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 26 Aug 2011 9:44 am

I want to warn folks that political discussions are not allowed on the Steel Guitar Forum. I've seen articles like this turn into political rants about "the government". We have a rule against that.

Gibson is a major musical instrument manufacturer, so the raid itself is a valid music news topic. WSJ's spin in the article is inflammatory, though, and I urge everyone here not to take the bait.

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 26 Aug 2011 9:56 am

Point taken B0B.....Stormy

Steven Finley · Post by **Steven Finley** » 26 Aug 2011 11:07 am

Bob,has a good point,well thanks Bob.

William Lake · Post by **William Lake** » 26 Aug 2011 11:53 am

I guess it's hard not to get political about this.
I wonder what all those people who own violins, cellos and string basses are going to have to go through every time they enter the US?
I'm not worried. My D'Angelico never leaves the house.

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 26 Aug 2011 12:23 pm

b0b wrote:I want to warn folks that political discussions are not allowed on the Steel Guitar Forum. I've seen articles like this turn into political rants about "the government". We have a rule against that.

Gibson is a major musical instrument manufacturer, so the raid itself is a valid music news topic. WSJ's spin in the article is inflammatory, though, and I urge everyone here not to take the bait.

The latest rumor on the raid is that it had nothing to do with endangered wood from Madagascar, but wood from India that was sold to Gibson and it did not meat the India Law standard. Apparently wood coming from India has to be processed and finished by native India workers, in India, or it can not be exported. They can not export raw wood, I'm not sure of the reason, but it's their law.

I was going to post a link on it, but the story was a little to political.
So here is a video clip of Henry (CEO of Gibson) telling what is going on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVop2yV8 ... r_embedded

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 26 Aug 2011 8:16 pm

Here's Gibson's response on their web site:
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/N ... 0825-2011/

William Lake · Post by **William Lake** » 26 Aug 2011 10:17 pm

ARMED AGENTS??? Good Lord. Maybe they thought Gibson was making banjos.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 26 Aug 2011 10:20 pm

It is not partisan political to be alarmed at this kind of stuff. This is about music and affects many of us personally.

I am alarmed at the way this kind of stuff has been going for some time now.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 27 Aug 2011 4:51 am

This is not partisan politics, this is a miscarriage of justice.

IMHO, the word "justice" has no business even being mentioned in this matter. This is stuff you hear about happening in a totalitarian regime.

What must have been going through the minds of the agents involved as they were suiting up for the raid? That luthiers working in an assembly line factory are a dangerous lot, probably armed to the teeth, and we better make sure we're not outgunned?

I feel both outrage and dismay this morning.

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 27 Aug 2011 9:32 am

Man! I'm waitin on a Gibson J-45 True Vintage acoustic guitar to arrive next week, or is it now considered contraband?

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 27 Aug 2011 10:25 am

If anyone cares about it Here IS the Search Warrant application for the raid on Gibson by the US Fish & Game and the US Homeland Security.

It looks like back at the end of June, a custom agent stopped a shipment of 1250 Indian Ebony neck blanks, ruff cut to 530mm X 75mm X 10mm, that had landed in a shipment to Dallas and were headed to Nashville.

In 2009 the Lacey Act was updated to include all endangered plants, and also says that the United States will abide by all foreign laws pertaining to any plant or animal protected by the Lacey Act.
So India has a law that says rosewood, mahogany, and ebony have to be finish, in India, by Indian workers or it can not be exported.
Now the US Dept of Homeland Security and Dept of Fish & Wildlife are interpreting the law, in India, to mean that since those ruff cut fretboard were not completely finish in India, Gibson broke Indian Laws, and violated the Lacey Act.
How finished do they have to be? They were already cut to the ruff size. Do they have to put the frets in over there? It's ebony, and you don't use any kind of varnish or finish and an ebony fretboard.

Craig Stock · Post by **Craig Stock** » 27 Aug 2011 10:40 am

What country am I living in today?

Guess we should shift all our jobs over there, if they're not already.

We need to start enforcing our laws, not their's

Let the flames begin, but I'm fed up with this, maybe they can clean up the hurricane mess too.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 27 Aug 2011 10:53 am

"India has a law that says rosewood, mahogany, and ebony have to be finish, in India, by Indian workers or it can not be exported. "

Annnnnd,,, the Indian government was fine with shipping this batch of wood. Also, the wood seized in '08, worth a half million bucks, has not been returned to Gibson. But no charges have ever been filed in that "case."

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 28 Aug 2011 11:12 am

Alvin,
Thanks for the link. Cop friend is reading it, and his first comment?
"WTH is Homeland Security doing there?"

Carson Leighton · Post by **Carson Leighton** » 28 Aug 2011 3:01 pm

Without getting into politics,,which I know is not allowed on this forum,,I would say the problem lies with India, not the U.S...Regards,,,Carson

Roger Miller · Post by **Roger Miller** » 28 Aug 2011 4:32 pm

I have read about how bad of a company Gibson is to work for by looking at http//glassdoor.com. It was the Dec.15, 2009 blog. I love my Lester, but just reading about all this crap just turns me off and makes me want to go PRS. What Gibson has done to all their dealers who make a million in sales, just blows my mind. Someone with business sense needs to take it by the hand real soon. Ok I'm off the soapbox, onward to St. Louis.