Song's in G# - capo or no on the Beard reso?

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 26 Jul 2011 11:55 am

Okay friends,

Song in a setlist for a pretty major artist calls for me to play in G# on dobro. I have tried capoing up but find what must be some kind of dyslexia kicking in, get all cornfused about my positions.

Would you capo up or do the heavy lifting and play without a capo?

Song's an uptempo bluegrassy thing, I IV V type jam, but not easy in G# on an instrument tuned to G!

Thanks for your feed back.

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 26 Jul 2011 12:17 pm

Man, isn't it time to invent movable position dots? I feel your pain, Gerald. That sort of thing drives me crazy.

Is this your only Dobro song of the set? If so, you could tune to G#. Otherwise, I'd go with the capo, so you can keep your open strings available.

L. Bogue Sandberg · Post by **L. Bogue Sandberg** » 26 Jul 2011 12:28 pm

G#... Yikes. That and F# are the only two keys I've never been required to play in a gig. I don't own a capo, but I'd suggest choosing whichever way is most comfortable and then running the changes over and over. That worked for me on a tune in C# one time. It kicked off the set and I had a fairly long, quiet intro with a lot of slants. I was terrified I'd revert to C part way through! I made it and the little Native American girl we were backing left 'em all with tears in their eyes.

Go luck,

Bogue

David Yannuzzi · Post by **David Yannuzzi** » 26 Jul 2011 12:55 pm

Yeah , the capo can make things weird visually.

I had a similar problem until i started practicing and working out tunes with the capo .especially when i transcribed Jerry D's parts on the song Big ,Bug Shuffle off the album skip hop and wobble .The tune is in F .Jerry capos at 3rd fret and plays out of D postion

In open G i play out of G & D positions

1st fret makes it keys /postion Ab and Eb ( enharmonic equal to G# & D# )easier for me to think in B's than all the #'s that the keys of G# & D# have

2nd fret keys makes it A and E

3rd fret Bb and F .

with that you got alot of bases covered and the open strings that are the sound we crave

Thats what i do .Hope that helps

dave

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 26 Jul 2011 1:45 pm

Peter called my response exactly.
I'd tune to G# if at all practical.

Might even carry two resos.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 26 Jul 2011 2:04 pm

I'm not a dobro player, so take this with a grain of salt. I like to play in keys 1/2 step above the tuning--I milk the hell out of the open strings. In Ab (we don't use the key G#, there would be 8 sharps!), the open strings give you very nice blue notes for hammering on and pulling off--D is the b5, B is the b3. Plus you can get really good chromatic licks by using the open strings as passing tones. For instance, play this:

[tab]
---------1---------1---------1----------4---4------0-----------------
--0--1------0---1-----0---1-----3---4----------4------2---0----1-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------1--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------[/tab]

I've never shied away from any keys because I could always find (or at least try) to find a way to make it interesting. I hate the idea of using a capo just to play the same old licks in a different key. Just try to come up with some great parts that you can practice and really nail and use those.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 26 Jul 2011 6:58 pm

Song's an uptempo bluegrassy thing, I IV V type jam, but not easy in G# on an instrument tuned to G!

I would capo fret 1... especially for fast bluegrass in G# and you are tuned to G. I would want to take advantage of the many bluegrass licks, hammer-ons, unisons, etc. available on the open strings, G tuning. Playing 3, 5, or 7 frets above the capo shouldn't be too much of a problem (with the fret markers), although playing on the upper frets might be a little confusing.

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 27 Jul 2011 6:15 am

I would try 2 approaches first. Play closed postion licks only, using the 13th fret as a home position. If that didn't work, see what I could do with hammer-ons and pull-offs on the 1st fret. If neither of those worked, THEN pull out the capo.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 27 Jul 2011 7:05 am

I would suggest playing in the key of Ab, it might be easier.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 27 Jul 2011 11:13 am

Word has it that Jerry Byrd liked playing in the key of C#/Db which is the first fret in C6 tuning. He said it opened up alot of possibilities for him. Personally, I have tried it. And I don't get it. But it may be worth a try for you to experiment in Ab without a capo down near the nut and see what you can find. You might be pleasantly surprised or, like me, not.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 27 Jul 2011 12:48 pm

Edward Meisse wrote:Word has it that Jerry Byrd liked playing in the key of C#/Db which is the first fret in C6 tuning. He said it opened up alot of possibilities for him. Personally, I have tried it. And I don't get it. But it may be worth a try for you to experiment in Ab without a capo down near the nut and see what you can find. You might be pleasantly surprised or, like me, not.

I feel the same way as Jerry about it. It really opens up a lot of possibilities.

William W Western · Post by **William W Western** » 27 Jul 2011 2:03 pm

FWIW, I agree with Jerry and Mike. The Dobro treatment of say, "Malaguena" is pretty much on the open and first fret and encompasses a range of tempos (though possibly not a traditional bluegrass clip). Just bounce around the fret and see what's available. I am not opposed to capos but I am usually too lazy to dig one out or have misplaced it temporarily. The use of the capo (though not as dire on the first fret) means all the notes to the left of the capo are now out of commission. Besides the all too often similarity to all songs when using the technique in other keys to produce a flurry of notes. Dunno, if I am making any sense as I was out doing some heavy lifting in the noonday sun and feel a trifle light-headed.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 27 Jul 2011 2:55 pm

Well,,, you could use the capo, and get some little stick on dots or jewels at the craft store, and stick 'em on the neck. But I'd want to exhaust all the other possibilities first. I play Hawaiian tunes in F all the time, as some great passing notes are available on the open strings. But then I'm centering my playing around the 10th fret, which probably won't work at all for Bluegrass! If you need to play, and am only comfortable playing stuff that needs the open G tuning, save yourself, and capo! But,,,,, exploring the possibilities can only add to your knowledge and capabilities!

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 27 Jul 2011 4:18 pm

Playing off the first fret can be fun, but realistically, if they're looking for fast bluegrass Dobro parts, they're going to expect the hammer on and pull off style that accompanies the open tuning.

I play with one band that tunes everything half step flat, so I tune my Dobro that way for them. I've never tuned up, but if you're not comfortable with capoing, then I'd tune it up.

Bluegrassers can be a finicky lot--very traditionally leaning. I'm used to capoing because I do a lot of bluegrassing. I love playing in D, A, Bb and Bm and Em , while in open G tuning, for example, but if it doesn't produce the mode they're expecting, I have to use a capo.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 27 Jul 2011 5:21 pm

...if they're looking for fast bluegrass Dobro parts, they're going to expect the hammer on and pull off style that accompanies the open tuning.

I agree, Webb. Gerald said he's working with "a pretty major artist" and they want him to play dobro on "an uptempo bluegrassy thing". I would guess that they expect to hear traditional bluegrass dobro sounds (open strings, hammer-ons, pull offs, unisons) and that's how I would play it in this situation... capo 1, key of G#.

Believe me, I love playing hammer-ons on fret 1 as much as anyone, and I played a lot of them on my tune: Valco Swing ,key of Db. But in this situation I'd play it straight and traditional on dobro. Just my opinion...

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 27 Jul 2011 11:43 pm

Doug Beaumier wrote:
...if they're looking for fast bluegrass Dobro parts, they're going to expect the hammer on and pull off style that accompanies the open tuning.
I agree, Webb. Gerald said he's working with "a pretty major artist" and they want him to play dobro on "an uptempo bluegrassy thing". I would guess that they expect to hear traditional bluegrass dobro sounds (open strings, hammer-ons, pull offs, unisons) and that's how I would play it in this situation... capo 1, key of G#.

Believe me, I love playing hammer-ons on fret 1 as much as anyone, and I played a lot of them on my tune: Valco Swing ,key of Db. But in this situation I'd play it straight and traditional on dobro. Just my opinion...

Just your opinion. But an awfully good point none the less. Major commercial artists almost always want archetypal sounds from their instrumentalists. Doing something else would be risky. To be clear, I have no first hand knowledge of this situation. I just know what I hear on the radio. The guy probably hired a, "Dobro," player because he wanted to hear a, "Dobro."

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 28 Jul 2011 2:43 pm

To choose a "lesser of two evils," it seems to me the path of least resistance if one rarely plays in a key like G#/Ab is to go ahead and capo the thing at the first fret.

I guess it's written in granite with this number that the artist absolutely has to sing it in G#, and up or down a half step is out of the question? Unless the other band members have played it in G# a bunch of times they probably aren't all that thrilled about it either.

To become comfortable with the patterns on the fretboard and incorporating some open strings in I-IV-V fairly fast bluegrass - style song without a capo means the "home base" for each chord postion is Fret 1, Fret 4, and Fret 6. If there isn't much lead time to work on this stuff, it sounds like a recipe for disaster come performance time.

Remember, the most popular reason any dobroist uses a capo at all is on the faster numbers trying to keep up and they visually adjust to the situation depending on the key of the song. The majority of fast fiddle tunes are in A, so most pplayers get used to capoing on the second fret fairly quickly.

Tuning up to G# sounds like a possibility, but strings 4,5, and 6 on the typical dobro set are already pushing the limit tension-wise (dpending on the age and "health" of the strings), wear eye protection if you are going to attempt that with the strings that are currently on the guitar if they are the typical 36, 46 and 56!

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 28 Jul 2011 2:49 pm

Doug Beaumier wrote:
Believe me, I love playing hammer-ons on fret 1 as much as anyone, and I played a lot of them on my tune: Valco Swing ,key of Db. But in this situation I'd play it straight and traditional on dobro. Just my opinion...
Wonderful, Doug. I'm going down to get my lap steel out right now. Thanks for some inspiration.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 28 Jul 2011 3:14 pm

Thanks, Webb, I'm glad you like it.

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 29 Jul 2011 6:45 am

Thank you all so much for the replies, very helpful, funny how I would say the group seems pretty much split down the middle, I am going to do it without a capo I think, I never capo to play in A or Bb, and can get around pretty well in those keys.

The gig is with Steve Earle's VERY talented son Justin Townes Earle, this Sunday at 3 PM at the Newport Folk Festival, I think I am going to go with what has worked in the past, i.e. no capo. Sounds better too!

Hope to maybe see of you all there, should be a great experience, both days are sold out and the line up is nutty.

Best,

Gerald