Whats best for the money? LDG? ZUMSTEEL?

Tommy Everette · Post by **Tommy Everette** » 7 Jun 2011 1:30 am

I'm buying a steel this week.
$2100 to spend....
So far I have a choice between a 80ish LDG, 75ish LDG, or 78 ZUMSTEEL D-10....
Whats my best choice?

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 7 Jun 2011 2:16 am

You are comparing a D-10 to SD-10. Can't really compare that. You will have to decide if you want a single neck guitar (on a double frame) or a doubleneck guitar.

There are many that are partial to the old Sho-Bud LDG models, but if I were to choose from the ones you mention I would go with the Zum D-10.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 7 Jun 2011 4:12 am

I agree with Jack.
I'd also go with the Zum.
I have a Super Pro as well so why another Sho-Bud when you have the best.
Go with the Zum.
Don

Tommy Everette · Post by **Tommy Everette** » 7 Jun 2011 4:20 am

Are the 78 Zums fairly free of issues?
One on here for $2350 by carrol konig, looks like green wood? is it wood or laminate made to look like wood? anyone know?

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 7 Jun 2011 4:33 am

I used to live in Kansas City, where the Zums were built and know Bruce Zumsteg, but I don't remember too much about the early models. Most (all) that I saw were mica covered and not plain wood.

One of our club members (Jack Dougherty) has an 82 (I think) Zum listed on here for sale. It has been completely gone over a little over a month ago and is in excellent condition. He wants more for this one, but considering the condition it's worth it. Jack had it at our club jam last month and he had just got it back from being restored - looks and plays like new.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 7 Jun 2011 7:03 am

the early zumsteel might be a pull-reiease changer which will limit you somewhat eventually. ..course i'm not sure about the one you're looking at. and that is a lot of money to spend on an old single neck...to me.

that much money could find you a great, fully loaded modern single neck if you know what to look for....and possibly a better d10.

Jack Goodson · Post by **Jack Goodson** » 7 Jun 2011 7:29 am

i had a 1977 year model that was solid wood,very heavy, and did not play that great. but sounded great. fact is if i didn't already have 2/zums i would have already bought the one you are talking about....thanks jack

Rich Gibson · Post by **Rich Gibson** » 7 Jun 2011 6:02 pm

Tommy I wouldn't buy either one.There is better deals currently on this forum and many more to come if your patient.
Check the sweet little BMI at 1400.
Derby SD-10 at 2000.00
Really nice Carter D-10 on page 2 for 2100.
You already have a Super Pro so you have that era Sho-Bud covered.Plus why anyone would want 2 pot metal guitars is beyond me...

:)

Just my opinion of course.

Stephen Cordingley · Post by **Stephen Cordingley** » 7 Jun 2011 6:18 pm

a Carter D10 (or S10) is well within your price range
they are sweet sounding and strightforward to maintain
just sayin'....

Tommy Everette · Post by **Tommy Everette** » 7 Jun 2011 6:21 pm

Wowsers!
So many steels, so little time!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 7 Jun 2011 6:21 pm

I don't know which they are - someone here will - but the "potmetal" ShoBuds seem like a lifetime investment opportunity, i.e. you'll be spending money fixing them for the rest of your life until you get it stripped clean and rebuilt with machined metal parts by Duane Marrs or Jim Morehead.

(I was gonna put a smileyface on the end, but there's some guy out there right now with a busted part in his hand thinking "FRRGGLLGRR....")

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 7 Jun 2011 6:25 pm

Hey Tommy, I have been through what you are experiencing, I determined that if I ever decide on another guitar I will take the time to go somewhere and play different ones to see which of them I liked and suited my taste. It's worth the effort. don't let anyone intimidate you about owning a Sho-Bud they have already made their mark , the rest have yet to do that. JMHO

Tommy Everette · Post by **Tommy Everette** » 7 Jun 2011 6:40 pm

I think an exact second guitar would have lots of advantages, regardless of the seldom breaking piece of pot metal, that I haven't experienced.
I guess you have learn to stop continuing to push the lever when it reaches the stop screw, and stop breaking the parts. pot metal or aluminum doesn't flex like that.

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 7 Jun 2011 7:00 pm

A gentle caress will bring about a sweeter tone than a knee "buck" or pedal stomp. I'd sure hate to be that woman!

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 7 Jun 2011 10:16 pm

Stephen Cordingley wrote:a Carter D10 (or S10) is well within your price range
they are sweet sounding and strightforward to maintain
just sayin'....

I agree with that recommendation. Most old guitars in your price range have issues. Most Carters do not.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 8 Jun 2011 8:44 am

Lots of noise here about ShoBud "pot metal" but I wonder how many of the noise-makers have actually had such a failure. Having owned and played two hard-working "pot metal" ShoBuds since 1974 I will tell you that I have had exactly ONE breakage incident in all that time - the reverse cam for the Eb lever - which Harley James quickly replaced with an aluminum piece that he had machined. Other than that I have had no issues at all with either guitar, they tune well and stay in tune, and look and sound like no other when push comes to shove. I'm still working the little Pro I hard every week on stage and in the studio and I'll buy another if the opportunity should arise.

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 8 Jun 2011 9:44 am

SHO-BUD All The Way. SONNy.

Harold Dye · Post by **Harold Dye** » 8 Jun 2011 12:35 pm

Tommy I have both a Sho-Bud and a Zum. My Bud is a Super Pro I bought new in 79 and my Zum is an 81 that I have had about 15yrs. Both these guitars play equally well and both sound great. When I go play I usually take the one sitting nearest the door. In my opinion either of the guitars will be great and you might look at the Zum simply because you have a Bud. I know the LDG is a fine sounding instrument but the Zum will give you a difference in sound to what you are accoustomed to. So will the other guitars mentioned in the thread. My Bud is not stock and the changes made, have greatly increased the playablity and tone in my opinion.

Carl Williams · Post by **Carl Williams** » 8 Jun 2011 2:40 pm

Hey Tommy,
You might check out this thread started by Jamie Lennon back in '07...My '76 LDG is on page 2 and is blue--not a bad looking steel!

Carl
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

Rich Gibson · Post by **Rich Gibson** » 8 Jun 2011 6:09 pm

It's not so much the breakage on the pot metal Sho-buds that bothered me.I did have 2 incidents, but what bugged me was the undercarrige of my beautiful guitar had the feel and texture of a dime store cap pistol.
More of an aesthetic thing I guess...that and the reverse knee levers looked like they were assembled by a seventh grade shop class.
The super pro I had sounded great and was a gorgeous instrument.Mechanically,however it just doesn't stand in comparison to guitars being made today.
Dave,I'm sorry my opinion was so noisy.I couldn't hear myself over all the clanking.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 13 Jun 2011 1:59 am

b0b wrote:
Stephen Cordingley wrote:a Carter D10 (or S10) is well within your price range
they are sweet sounding and strightforward to maintain
just sayin'....
I agree with that recommendation. Most old guitars in your price range have issues. Most Carters do not.

well stated... If you get a normal Carter, you will tune it up after stretching the strings by playing it for a few minutes, and then not have to touch the tuning machines or endplate nylons for a month. If you get a normal Sho Bud you will have to tune it a few times every day..
There are exceptions. I have seen many very good players on this forum say they own original Buds that are always in tune. However that would be an exceptional Bud IMHO.

I still own my Carter, but each of the 6 or so Buds I have owned are gone because they were ornery, clanky and unstable when compared to other steels.

Buds are cool guitars, but there are many other brands that are much more dependable from a mechanical/tuning perspective.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 13 Jun 2011 7:09 am

Dave Grafe wrote:Lots of noise here about ShoBud "pot metal" but I wonder how many of the noise-makers have actually had such a failure. Having owned and played two hard-working "pot metal" ShoBuds since 1974 I will tell you that I have had exactly ONE breakage incident in all that time - the reverse cam for the Eb lever - which Harley James quickly replaced with an aluminum piece that he had machined. Other than that I have had no issues at all with either guitar, they tune well and stay in tune, and look and sound like no other when push comes to shove. I'm still working the little Pro I hard every week on stage and in the studio and I'll buy another if the opportunity should arise.

Dave..I had two knee levers and two bell-cranks fail on my Pro-II, which prompted me to purchase a complete set of under-carriage parts (including changers, knee levers, bellcranks etc.) from John Coop. I've had no such problems since I rebuilt the thing using his parts. The guitar cost $2K and the parts a bit less than $1K. So for about $3000 I have an essentially new "Bud D-10 8+6. Also, It has much more sustain w/ the new solid aluminum changer heads.

If one is really gung-ho for an LDG, my advise is to buy one with the older 2-hole puller bell-crank system. Not being made of pot-metal, those parts don't fail as frequently.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 13 Jun 2011 10:00 am

Dave,I'm sorry my opinion was so noisy.I couldn't hear myself over all the clanking

I had two knee levers and two bell-cranks fail on my Pro-II

I wasn't thinking of you personally at all Rich, but more generally to the many posts each year here on the forum about the tendency of many 'Buds to break at inopportune moments. I do remember that you had some real distress with that Pro II, Tony, no doubt at all that I have led a charmed life

There is no question that there are far better instruments built from a machine-work standpoint, certainly the underside of my '78 Pro I looks like junk next to a contemporary Emmons, Zum, Mullen, etc. I just can't get past how it (the 'Bud) plays and sounds so have chosen to take the risk as I can't afford to rebuild it. Hopefully I have not jinxed myself by talking about it

Gary Preston · Post by **Gary Preston** » 13 Jun 2011 10:27 am

Maybe all the Sho~Buds i owned were just super guitars and still own two . But i havn't had any major problems with mine . I bought a new one in 1977 Pro-ll custom and have a 1980 L.D.G. The only thing i replaced was the bellcrank that i basically broke by getting under the guitar with the knee lever down and pushed it the wrong way ! I am a firm believer in the Sho~Buds myself ! There isn't any better playing guitar and they have the '' Nashville Sound '' people talk about ! But what do i know ?

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 13 Jun 2011 11:21 am

It's funny but last night while trying to reorganize my music room, I found those two broken bell-cranks.

Dave my Pro-II is up in PDX. We should get together sometime and A/B both 'Buds.

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Whats best for the money? LDG? ZUMSTEEL?

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