Steel Players in the Dumpster...

[John De Maille]

John played steel so well! It really brings a tear to my eye knowing he's not with us anymore. It's a shame, actually.

[Fred Shannon]

It's obvious from some expressed viewpoints, some forumites live in a very small world. The steel guitar, and country music are far from dead, topographically. In your area mebbe' so, in my part of the country and throughout the Southwest a band wouldn't get on a bandstand without a steel and a fiddle. And we play true country music and so do the radio stations.

AND THE PEOPLE LOVE IT AND BUY IT!!!

You folks been to any steel shows lately, i.e., Phoenix, Dallas, and many others?

phred

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

Some of you guys need to expand your horizons.

Thank's for the advice
But seriously Mike, I find this a little condescending.

It probably is. I'm not always as tactful as I should be. But it doesn't change the facts that country is only one of many styles of music that the steel is suited to play, and that our instrument is stereotyped by people outside the world of country music as being unfit to play anything else.

Like I said, I have no problem with people who listen to my recordings with an open mind and simply don't like them. But when somebody says they "know" without hearing them that I "must have" played the music country style, simply because I played it on a steel, that ticks me off. And whether or not you guys like my stuff, that should tick you off too. This is bigotry and prejudice toward us and our instrument.

BTW, one of the people who assumed that I must have played the music country style without having heard the CDs, said that to play classical music on a pedal steel guitar was "a crime against music."

I should also mention that I've had a lot of positive and supportive comments. Things like "Wow. That's great. I didn't know you could do that on a pedal steel. I thought it was only good for country."

But as flattering as that is, it's just the other side of the same coin. It's still a matter of the steel being stereotyped, and steel players being thought of as toothless, cousin marrying, illiterate, moonshine drinking cartoon characters.

[Al Udeen]

I always thought dumpsters were reserved for accordion players?

[Dave Hopping]

In a roundabout way,the OP is talking about the scarcity of gigs.I thought it so very significant that the 3+ times a week Larry Bell is working is now considered the top of the food chain,but was considered part-time back in the day,and I'm sure that if the bar-band scene were still what it was once,then there'd be a whole lot of players working the genre exemplified by the Youtube,and trying to cop Hughey's licks.

Mike makes the point that the community of the musically well-educated is guilty of bigotry and prejudice towards our instrument.One might observe that the bias gene is well settled into everyone's DNA,including(and perhaps especially)that of the well-educated.I'd counsel him to keep up his good work and not to worry about the musical elite's biases;their community is even more insular-and more dependent on public funding-than ours.

[Tom Quinn]

Okay, home from work. I played for many, many years, four and five nights a week, 100 bucks minimum when that was money. I settled in on a nice Emmons D-10, a '57 Strat and a '54 Tele with a string bender my friend Gene installed for me.

They are all gone. Someone here was nice enough to sell me a great Sho-Bud, but the governor's three-day-per-month furlough plan for California State workers took care of that, along with just about everything else not nailed down in my house. Oh well, life goes on...

My point is that, even if I was fully equipped, there aren't any gigs in this part of California. You would think the Central Valley would be crawling with pickers and honkytonks but, nope, not any to speak of that I know about.

I know there are pedal steel setups out there -- when Jeff taught out here in the 70s 100+ pickers would show up just in NorCal alone. So there must be closets full of rigs and rusty old pickers around.

And as for the topic of expanding my horizons -- i play all sorts of music. My best work is playing a Strat in horn bands, R&B stuff.





But my heart will always be with hard country.

And as for the steel in other genres, the only player I ever heard who could do it was the guy in the Hacienda Brothers -- he could play horn lines like no one else.

Oh yeah, I do in fact play the (Cajun) accordion, just so ya know...

[b0b]

Some of you guys need to expand your horizons.

Thank's for the advice
But seriously Mike, I find this a little condescending.

He's practicing the attitude to fit in with classical musicians.

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

Some of you guys need to expand your horizons.

Thank's for the advice
But seriously Mike, I find this a little condescending.

He's practicing the attitude to fit in with classical musicians.

When in Rome...

[Fred Shannon]

Tom Q: "My point is that, even if I was fully equipped, there aren't any gigs in this part of California."

Like I said to me and several other players it's a geographical 'thingie'.


phred

[Jerome Hawkes]

years ago (15-20), i was a pretty good (bluegrass) mandolin player - i had every gig i would take - even here in NC, the heart of BG country, there were few young mandolin players. then along came a kid named Chris Thile and Nickel Creek who exploded on the scene. what this did was fire up the young base - made it "hip" to play the mandolin and now every festival i go to there are dozens of GREAT young mandolin players.

i dont see that happening with the pedal steel although i do think the lap steel is in the early stages of a great renaissance - but this will surely NOT be country, but rock/blues based - i dont think many of these new lap players will seriously take up pedals, its more of a slide sound they are attracted to.

[Chris Schlotzhauer]

Pedal steel guitar needs to be played more in other genres of music. Don't count on country music to ensure the survival of the instrument and its players.

I still play country music, if it is the style of that particular artist in the Texas Music Scene I have worked in for the past 20 years or so. But a lot of those artists' styles range from country to Tejano, blues, southern rock, island, bluegrass, folk, etc. Which is why I love it. Plus, it's all original music.
Here in Ft Worth, there are some great hard core country venues with great players who work those clubs. They play tons of Bush, Price and Paycheck and Western Swing as good as it can be played.
I never work those rooms because that's their thing, but not mine.
I don't think I would be happy playing the same hard core songs every night.....but that's just me.
Flame on!!

[Dave Grafe]

Funny thing but my perception is quite the opposite.

Out here on the upper left edge there are more folks playing PSG in more genres and at more venues than at any time in the past forty years. I'm hearing it on the radio more and seeing it on television more and my own playing has never been more appreciated and in demand in my life. The younger folks have taken to it and at our last Steel Jamboree here we had over forty players on the floor with more still in attendance who did not play. From where I sit it appears that the instrument is being embraced by a larger and more diverse crowd of both musicians and listeners than I have ever seen.

Granted my outings are not limited to "traditional country" at all, although with Miss Joni Harms and others I savor the opportunity to keep the western sound alive. However, as I have never considered myself a "guitarist" so much as a "musician" it has never bothered me at all to play jazz charts, broadway tunes, blue notes, keyboard parts, horn standards, latin grooves, classical passages or anything else that makes the music of the moment work.

I've even been asked to play "The Star-Spangled Banner" for the Portland Trailblazers but I'm not so sure that moving all that hardware onto and off of the basketball court in a hurry (and in the dark) is really practical, so for the time being this is an unlikely appearance but one never knows....

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

I've even been asked to play "The Star-Spangled Banner" for the Portland Trailblazers but I'm not so sure that moving all that hardware onto and off of the basketball court in a hurry (and in the dark) is really practical, so for the time being this is an unlikely appearance but one never knows....

Man, what a great opportunity to introduce the steel to people who are unfamiliar with it. You GOTTA do it. Certainly you can get a friend or two to help you with the gear, maybe in exchange for a couple of free lessons.

[b0b]

Funny thing but my perception is quite the opposite.

Out here on the upper left edge there are more folks playing PSG in more genres and at more venues than at any time in the past forty years. I'm hearing it on the radio more and seeing it on television more and my own playing has never been more appreciated and in demand in my life. The younger folks have taken to it and at our last Steel Jamboree here we had over forty players on the floor with more still in attendance who did not play. From where I sit it appears that the instrument is being embraced by a larger and more diverse crowd of both musicians and listeners than I have ever seen.

Forum memberships reflect this. I've seen a lot of new members from Washington and Oregon over the past few years. Those northwesterners who submitted tracks to the Forum Showcase CD were quite innovative.

[chas smith R.I.P.]

But selling this idea to musicians in other styles is definitely an issue. Many think 'steel guitar' and say, 'Oh, whining country music.' We need to work on that - yes, it's great for country music, but that 'country-only' absolute stereotype needs to be stamped out.

I've mentioned this before, but it's worth repeating. I don't do a lot of union session work anymore, and if it's traditional, there are other guys who get those calls, for obvious reasons, but on the last 2, I was warming up pushing the pedals and the first thing out of the producer's mouth was, "no Nashville!" They want what the steel guitar sounds like, which no other instrument can do, and they know that it can do a lot more than the country stuff.

[John Turbeville]

Im a 6 string player mainly, but Ive been playing Pedal steel behind a few guys that sing and play acoustic guitars. The style is alt/folk rock, maybe a bit like the grateful dead and garcia. I dont play country but I do practice across older country.

Let me say, I could play almost everyday live, as a PSG player i'm in high demand. I'm basically in 3 bands w the Pedal steel and busy playing.....and learning a lot very quickly. i'm really enjoying it, much more than 6 string, its more cerebral musically....

[Daniel Morris]

Surprising how this subject keeps resurfacing.
I was also surprised by a recent newsletter from Bobbe Seymour, who generally seems to favor pedal steel only in country environs. He name checked Pure Prairie League and Poco in a positive light, and I thought that refreshing.
Seems that many who claim to love the steel guitar only love it in traditional country music. Pity. It's an instrument, period. Even if we're all essentially guitarists, a guitar is still just an instrument. Why is it so difficult for some to recognize this basic fact? If someone genuinely loves our instrument - as an instrument - how could its use be denigrated in myriad of contexts? Perhaps it's a matter of upbringing, perhaps it's choice - I admit, I do not get it. If steel guitar sounds good, it sounds good, period. I detest what is passed off as "country" music these days, but that's because it's bad music, not because I don't hear enough steel in it. Just like jazz fans who won't recognize jazz beyond hard bop, rock fans who can't see past "classic rock", and classical aficionados who scoff at anything later than the 19th century, the blinders some steelers and fans have on need to disappear.

[Barry Blackwood]

Why is it so difficult for some to recognize this basic fact? If someone genuinely loves our instrument - as an instrument - how could its use be denigrated in myriad of contexts? Perhaps it's a matter of upbringing, perhaps it's choice - I admit, I do not get it. If steel guitar sounds good, it sounds good, period.

Daniel, maybe I'm taking on too much, but I think the point Bobbe and others are trying to make is that steel guitar probably sounds best playing country. Would steel sound as good playing in an acoustic jug band, or a (shudder) banjo band at a pizza parlor, etc. etc.?

[David Mason]

Well, Larry Bell said it all, so a partial regurge is in order:

I currently play in a band that works 160+ gigs/yr and plays everything from Patsy Cline or George Strait to Miranda Lambert or Jason Aldean to Eagles, Led Zeppelin or Skynyrd (I do live in Florida) or AC/DC. That diversity is one secret to the success of the band. There's something for everyone and we do the rock stuff as convincingly as the old or new country. I basically play rhythm guitar parts (power chords and stuff) or keyboard stuff with a Leslie or simulator and slide guitar style solos. I listen to Derek Trucks and Duane (and Gregg) Allman and, yes, Robert Randolph for ideas. It's great fun. I'm 61 and playing more than ever in my life.

People want to hear the music they grew up with, and in most cases that's within the "classic rock" pantheon. And if you can't play the parts - guitar parts - a guitar player will get the job. If you can play "Sweet Home Alabama" and "Hotel California" you'll get the job. This stuff is easy, a lot easier than what "Buddy & Curley and Jimmie and..." played, for the most part. Keyboard parts for popular rock songs are pretty easy, and I think it works better if you don't invest half-a-grand of organ simulation toys - just play the notes right, and people lap it up. The way to break the country stereotype is to - ahem - not play country. You can play "Every Breathe You Take" on C6th with ONE pedal, guys... less, if you're willing to move the bar a little. The hardest part, bar none, is trying to get some rhythmic punch & bite into a steel, instead of having everything be dreamy drifty ambient-blob sounding. #1 - lay off the volume pedal. MY #2 is "lift the bar" but I know that's excommunication territory...

[Daniel Morris]

Hey, Barry:
I wasn't running Bobbe down. Perhaps many feel steel sounds best in country; I still enjoy it myself.
If you're asking whether Nashville steel guitar licks sound right in other musics, I'd say no. But I'd hasten to add that's not my point. An instrument - any instrument - must be fitted to a given context. I wonder how many country players simply don't recognize this, and (correctly) assume that rocking on the A pedal doesn't cut it in a jug band.
It's the player, when all is said and done, who determines what fits and what doesn't. The instrument he or she uses is just a nice sounding tool.

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

I think the point Bobbe and others are trying to make is that steel guitar probably sounds best playing country.

But that is a subjective opinion. One could say with just as much validity that the steel sounds best when played the way Robert Randolph plays. It's purely a matter of taste.

The fact that the the steel has an established place in country music, and the majority of steel guitarists play country, is meaningless in terms of what the instrument can do and what kinds of music can be played on it.

Who would have thought 30 years ago that the steel would find it's way into Juju music from Nigeria?. Who would have predicted 10 or 15 years ago that a steel player would become a rock star?

[Dave Mudgett]

I was also surprised by a recent newsletter from Bobbe Seymour, who generally seems to favor pedal steel only in country environs.

I want to make sure I don't put words in Bobbe's mouth, but I think you should fact-check before you say something like this. I have never heard Bobbe say that pedal steel is a "country instrument", and he himself uses it in a lot of contexts - see his CD page - http://steelguitar.net/cds.html - and here's the list of titles:

As Time Goes By (Jazz Standards)
Tennessee Country (Country)
Cure for the Blues (Memphis/Blues/Rockabilly)
Rhythmatic (I defy you to bag it)
Priceless and Priceless II (Ray Price and other country shuffles)
Steel Guitar Classics (early steel guitar tunes)
Steel Guitar Favorites (mixed styles)
Bobbe Seymour's Christmas Card
No Pedalers Allowed (mixed non-pedal)
Soulful Steel (cool standards in varying styles)
At The Feet Of God (gospel)
Master's Collection (mixed styles but lots of country)
Pure Country Steel (yes, country)

Yes, most of the 'big' players play plenty of country, but many also play lots of other styles.

Chas' point is well-taken, but I'm not in LA and I tend to get more resistance to steel guitar in non-country styles from musicians in those styles than from most steel players I talk with about it.

[Bill Howard]

First of all to all who wanted to put Tom Quinn down for having mentioned the FACT that there is no country music around anymore he is totally RIGHT!.
If you want to Play Rap Music on a Steel have at it.
Tom did not say a steel was limited to Country music he was simply voicing his opinion about the lack of real country music anymore it is for the most part gone like respect for others. He simply put a pst on with Gerge jones and Vestal Goodman and made a comment nothing more..
To all who want to act incensed that someone would actually want to use a Steel guitar for "Real Country Music"?? weather anyone likes it or not the steel guitar was popularized by country players.
Buddy emmons and others were playing Jazz on them LONG ago Herby Wallace ditto,Julian Tharpe... They have long been used for other genres....So if you like playing Beethoven on one have at it.
Don't act like someone is off center for missing real country music, there isn't much around anymore unless you like the little stud muffin cowboy hat wearing pretty boys, Jimmy Dickens Ernest Tubb wouldn't make it anymore,it is about looks anymore not talent

[chas smith R.I.P.]

it is about looks anymore not talent

and it's about selling product and products, not about music.

[Barry Blackwood]

Barry Blackwood wrote:
I think the point Bobbe and others are trying to make is that steel guitar probably sounds best playing country.

But that is a subjective opinion.

Mike, I said probably …