C#m7 tuning

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 16 Apr 2011 7:16 pm

So I'm doing some lap steel coffee house backups stuff and really finding C#m7 tuning more handy than A6. I tune my D-8 to A6 love the old A tunings. Can tune straight and get dobro rock sound then drop the 3rd and swing out. 5th to B and 6th to G# and nice maj chord on bottom. Basically E6/13 with cool slants and double stops. C6 or A6 just dont seem as usefull. Cant get 135 on top for open sound. Anyone else love the C#m7 tuning or am I crazy. For retunings drop/raise the 3rd and avoid bass strings and you can really cover a lot of ground dobro/hard lapsound, drop 3rd and back in swing country. Talking about six string here. Striped down for acoustic coffee house gigs. Really diggin C#m7. Really nice to be back on a six banger. Something about the string spacing or something. Love my big rig but love getting back to six strings and the truth. Sol Hoopii rules, TC

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 16 Apr 2011 7:20 pm

I learned on C#m7, so I know it pretty well inside and out and I'll just say that C6 is a heck of a lot more useful and versatile for me, especially when it becomes C6/A7 by tuning the low C to C#. But C#m7 is a good tuning to dig into, so have fun.

Learning the Sol Hoopii stuff as well as Dick McIntire will open up a lot of possibilities for anyone in that tuning.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Apr 2011 5:58 am

What I like about the C#m7 tuning is that it is sort of a combination of the old A tuning (that I first learned on) and the E tuning.
On my C#m7 tuning, I have a C# for the 2nd string and a B for the third.

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 17 Apr 2011 5:24 pm

I suppose C6 is better for more sophisticated stuff, but I really miss the 5th on top dobro thing. For people I back up really need that. That with the drop root thing, can swing out also. Perhaps not quite ideal but for multi use just take one steel with me I can get a lot with this setup. BTW, I am using this version of C#m7

E high
C#
G#
E
B
G# low

I keep it in this tuning and just pull up the G# back to A when I need the hard lap dobro sound, sometimes avoiding the bass strings and just playing the E up. Really handy. Is there a way to do this with C6 or in my case A6.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 17 Apr 2011 10:47 pm

I don't know why it is, but sometimes an old cheap lap steel sounds like a different guitar with C#m7 in it. Strange......

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 18 Apr 2011 10:53 pm

Anyone else love the C#m7 tuning or am I crazy.

I love it for playing Hawaiian music, especially to play old Hawaiian classics because you get an old Hawaiian sound. IMHO

Aloha,

Don

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 19 Apr 2011 1:12 am

I have often used C#m on 6 string guitars, however, my preferance is the F#9th tuning instead. Far superior sound and the chordal possibilities out-do the C#m.

DICK McINTIRE used the F#9th on many of his recordings.

Hi to Lo: E C# G# E A# F# . I feel it is a long forgotten tuning, seldom heard anymore especially amongst the youth of the Forum. However, if I am performing somewhere and require the use of my 6 string Ric frypan, it's F#9th you'd be hearing.

JMHO of course.

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 19 Apr 2011 1:53 am

John Ely sings the praise of F#9 on his updated website. Will try to mess around with it when I get the chance. He also says it's a underrated tuning. Thing is I need something I can be flexible with i.e. retune for different situations on the fly. Thanks for the input.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 19 Apr 2011 5:04 am

If you're really looking for versatility in a home base tuning, C6 is the one. You can get to E9 or A6 or B11 with just a few turns of the pegs. This is what I do, unless I'm playing multiple necks. I find the E9 tuning (which is also easily changed to E13) to be a much better tuning for me than C#m7 ever was, because there are closer intervals and you can get a lot more out of it in single notes and in harmony.

E
B
G#
F#
D
B

S.M. Johnson · Post by **S.M. Johnson** » 21 Apr 2011 4:15 pm

I'm still an amateur(sp?) but have studied up on lot's of steel guitar related issues;including tunings. I do have to agree with Mike Neer on most of his stated positions. THANK YOU Mike!
What some of the newer players here on the forum at times appear not to understand is the purpose of tunings.
Long ago when steel guitar lessons were sold on a door to door basis, about the only three tunings that were being offered to the public were E/E7th, A6/Hi or Lo bass, and C#min. If you initially learned in any of those three tunings, chances are good that you'd continue to use them into your professional playing career. (Pedals didn't enter the spectrum until Bud Issacs in the early 1950's or thereabouts.)
A simple example of why one tuning might be selected over a dozen others
might be easy to recognize with this example. The song "Coquette", can be played in C#min without fuss or compromise as it just lies there waiting for one to pick the strings. Now, try to play that same sone in E7th or A6th. It might well be possible but it definitely will NOT HAVE the same classic ring in its melody.
So, if a musician played "Coquette' and finished it without any problems but was going to play something else for which C#min was not ideally suited, stop, take a breath, twist some tuning pegs and away you go. Personally, I think that's how more than 350 different tunings ultimately evolved in the world of steel
gutiar.
Another example: Hank Thompson frequently traveled our region, here in the Northwest Territory. His steel players nearly always used the same tunings and yet for the average weekend player, it was nearly impossible to play ANYTHING in those tunings. It did however, provide Hank Thompsons' Brazoes Valley Boys a unique and identifiable sound. This is what they were after, "A SOUND!" PeeWee Whitewing was just one of those many road players.
Later, pedals were used to make changing from one tuning, let's say, E7th to A6th.........a quick and simple task.
Speedy West hid his pedals and feet, behind a beautiful Birdseye Maple panel.
I seriously doubt that any tho't was given to avoiding SLANTS. Slants are inherent in playing the steel guitar. Anyone choosing to avoid SLANTS by way of any kind of mechanical device.......is just as likely to take the lazy way out and instead of using the tone control as Speedy West did, opting instead to employ an electronic cut-out in hope of accomplishing the same affect.
Starting on page one, lesson one, of a steel guitar instructional manual will greatly enhance once's learning progress.

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 21 Apr 2011 6:38 pm

I am backing a local rock and roll/rockabilly singer songwriter, the songs are not sophisticated bebop jazz. Really used to 135 on top from dobro. I retune from Amaj to C#m7 for the swing stuff. Can C6/A6 get to that. Will I ever really need B11 or E9 for this application. I think, maybe incorrectly, C6/A6 is overqualified for this job. Perhaps as a solo or higher calibre gig. But for coffee house casual jams that call for blues and swing together C#m7 just seems more practical. I have been playing for 5 or 6 yrs and still have lots to learn. I play A6 with maj 7 on bottom, and E9/13 on front neck in my personal band but they are 8 string. 6 string is a challenge. Would like to hear more C6 possibilities for this type of gig.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 21 Apr 2011 6:57 pm

Tom, I want you to understand I am posting this for the sake of conversation only, not to try to change your mind or anything. Absolutely C6 and E9 are tunings totally made for swinging Rockabilly stuff. I'm not posting this to toot my own horn, but to give you an idea of the sounds:

E9
Buddy's Boogie
Bud's Bounce

Whatever you're comfortable with and like is obviously going to be beneficial for you. I'm just sharing my experience of having been down that road. C#m7 was great, but it ran out of room for me. You can get all those sounds from C#m7 on C6. I'll give you an example:

[tab]C#m7 tuning
To play an A7 chord.....here's A9
---------5---4---3------7------
---------5---4---3------6------
---------5---4---3------5------
-----------------------------------
[/tab]

[tab]C6 tuning
To play the same as above
--------------------------------
-----9----8----7---------7------
-----9----8----7---------7------
-------------------------------
-----9----8----7---------6------
[/tab]

There are very few things you can do in C#min7 that you can't do in C6. It is a more sophisticated tuning if you want it to be--if not, then it doesn't have to be. But then again, you can't do this on C6 (this is C#min7):

12th Street Rag

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 22 Apr 2011 1:35 am

Cool Mike. Nice to have a critical analysis study on tunings. I find it facinating. Will be messing with E9 soon. Have a lap in A6 already, need to sit down with it and play along with demos. Looking for the hard blues lapsteel sound plus swing. Thanks again for you posts. TC

Kevin Ruddell · Post by **Kevin Ruddell** » 24 Apr 2011 9:32 am

Enjoyed reading the post topic replies and went to Mike Neer's web site which is cool. Basil's web site article on this tuning is really helpful too
I like having the B as the 3rd string so there's a major triad up top . I just think of it as an E6th type tuning then .
I just couldn't manage to learn Tenderly , Deep Purple, or Caravan by Santo Farina in A6th or C6th until tuning to C#7 minor .....then it fell in place .
For my lap steel the A 6 seems bassy at times and C 6 seems high .the E6 is kind of just right in the middle. Plus a few strings up or down gets me there if needed.
Probably as I started on regular guitar and bass so the E is comfortable I guess

The Steel Guitar Forum

C#m7 tuning

C#m7 tuning

C#m7 tuning

C#m7

My hat's off to Mike Neer................

C#m7 tuning

C#m7 tuning

C#7 minor