diminshed chords on E9th

[Ron Sodos]

I am curious what variations of diminished chords people use on the E9th neck?

[Larry Bressington]

E's raised different string groupings.

[Larry Bressington]

E's raised mostley slide it around.

[Jody Sanders]

Mostly 'E" raise. Strings 4,5,6 or 5,6,8. Ocassionally with A&B pedals down, lower "E" and lower "B". Strings 3,4,5 or 5,6,8. Jody.

[Brint Hannay]

With the E raises, string groupings often including ones with the 9th string, or 2nd string "D" note.

With A&B pedals + E lowers either adding B lowers (if split is tuned) or with A pedal half-pedaled, groupings also including ones with the 7th or 1st string

3rd & 6th string G lowers with A pedal

[Clete Ritta]

E raises and AB + E lower + B lower as mentioned, and also BC+ B lower.

Clete

[Greg Cutshaw]

The one I use the most is pedal B, 1/2 pedal A (or split tuning on pedal A) and the E's lowered. It's real smooth and gives a full sound. There's a ton of other C6 sounds available with the pedal A 1/2 down.





Hear It!





Greg

[Rick Schmidt]

Ron...my first "go to" diminished is actually a Dim7, on strings 9,8,6,& 5 with the E's raised.

[Erv Niehaus]

Just use the knee lever that raises the E to F and the diminished chord is repeated every 3 frets.

[chris ivey]

yeah...what erv said...one fret down or two frets up from no pedal major position.

[Clete Ritta]

For the diminished triad, the F lever is perhaps the easiest ways to achieve it.
10, 9, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3 is a large cluster and easy to see all over the place.
Luckily, if you found one, you've found many (every three frets, up or down) which all work in a Diminished Seventh motif.
The E raise is one of the most important levers on PSG.
I use it often just from open to three frets up for a dominant seventh too.
Dominant seventh and diminished are not distant cousins musically.

Just use the knee lever that raises the E to F and the diminished chord is repeated every 3 frets.

But I wouldnt say "just" do it that way.
The largest cluster of diminished notes on E9 is AB with E lower and B lower (or half pedal A) which is on all but string 9 out of 10 strings. YMMV.
Part of the beauty of the PSG is its ability to produce almost any chord in a variety of ways.

Past the Diminished Triad and The Dominant Seventh
Diminished 7th chords (4 tones) come in two varieties.

Whole Diminished Seventh (°) chords contain nothing but minor thirds. This means that its Dominant Seventh tone (which is already flatted) is flatted again. This is commonly referred to in notation as a double flat or bb.

Half Diminished Seventh (ø) chords contain the Dominant Seventh (same as Minor Seventh) tone. This is a normal flatted Major (to a Minor or a Dominant) Seventh tone.

Strings 9,8,6,5 with the F lever produce a Whole Diminished Seventh chord.
Raise string 5 a half step by either half-pedal A or A + B lower (vertical lever usually if you have it) and it produces a Half Diminished Seventh (ø) chord.

There are other ways to achieve the half diminished seventh chord.
AB + B lower* on strings 7,6,5,4 for instance.

I really like the transitions from Minor Seventh to Half Diminished to Whole Diminished to Dominant to Tonic.
ii7, viiø, vii°, V7, I.

All can be done just with pedals and levers without moving the bar!
AB, AB+B lower*, AB +B lower* + E lower, B + E lower, Open.

*or half pedal A

A Forumite Jim Eaton posted this excellent interview clip from 1983.
Watch from 2:00-2:15 closely. He plays six out of seven in a chord scale.
Which one wasnt played? It was the last, diminished seventh chord.
He could have played a dominant seventh (V7) as a substitute, or an actual Diminished Seventh chord (vii°).
The interviewer cut him off before he finished.

Clete

[Steve Wood]

great stuff, clete, thanks!

[Erv Niehaus]

"Just" do it my way, it sure is a lot easier.

[Jim Hoke]

All you guys who do the half-pedal A thing are a whole lot braver than me. I know Emmons likes to half-pedal that for augmented chords and move that around as well. My pal Jim who works at Cotten Music here in Nashville was told the way to do it is to "curl your toes inside your boot". Darn if it didn't work, but I'm still ascared.

[Richard Sinkler]

Half pedaling works for me on slower stuff, but I can't get it right all the time on faster stuff. Having to hit 1 pedal all the way, one knee lever, and then half pedal another one at the same time quickly would probably throw me into a seizure.

[Joe Rogers]

All you guys who do the half-pedal A thing are a whole lot braver than me.

Jim, a mechanical half stop on your A pedal will be a lot more accurate.....

Just joking !!!!


Joe Rogers

[Erv Niehaus]

I actually tried that at one time.

[Richard Sinkler]

I also tried a half stop on a pedal one time, and I couldn't feel where the stop was. It is a lot more noticeable on a knee lever. I think if you played barefoot or in something soft like a moccasin you might be able to feel it.

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

If you have a zero pedal that lowers the G# strings to G natural, you also can get a diminished chord by using it with the A pedal.

[Clete Ritta]

Glad you mentioned that Mike.

I put this change on my Ext E9 P0 as an experiment.
I have the Franklin lowers on that pedal usually, but dont use it too often.
I now see why it is such a very useful change in proximity with Pedal A.
Having a diminished chord by only playing two pedals ala AB (In this case P0A)
is a real efficient move. Also, the instant minor with P0 is very useful by itself!

In response to the halfpedal A:
It sure is hard to do!
That is why the Vertical B lower lever is so useful!
It enables you to achieve the half step change accurately without having to guess where half of the pedal step is while doing other important balancing acts.
The only drawback is that there are nuances of the bend that cant be done any smoother than by half pedal, because the mechanics of the lever motion arent smooth in both directions.
Kinda like the E raise and lower on opposite knee argument.

The clockwise circular motion of the change I refer to in my earlier post is very easy to do in the direction indicated, but in reverse is a much more difficult transition to achieve smoothly.

Clete

[Richard Sinkler]

Clete... I have no doubt that there are many players who can do what you were explaining above with the half pedaling on real up tempo songs, hitting that diminished for only a beat or two. And I agree that half pedaling has a "different" feel and sound. If I had enough knee levers (heck, I already have 6 on E9th) I would have every change there is. But, I can get nice diminished chords, and can half pedal into the minor (with A+B pedals) good enough that the Bb lever just wasn't one that I used much. Even when I had it, I just half pedaled most of the time anyway.

Anyway, that was some real good info you posted above.