This Sho-Bud is a friend of mines that I'm likely gonna buy from him. I know little, if anything, about the Sho-Bud guitars in general. So, please help me with what model this is, approximate year/age, pros-n-cons of this model, and any other useful info regarding this model. Also, what would be a reasonable price/value of this particular guitar.
From what I can tell the condition seems to be decent, though it has not been played for a number of years. I suspect it wouldn't hurt if I could strip it down, clean-n-lube-n-reassemble it. However, at this point I've never done that before, but not afraid to do so with some guidance. This would definitely be a labor of love with this guitar.
So, any and all help and advice would be appreciated. Here are some pictures of it. I suspect I have the rods reversed based on the positions of the pedals, I'll jockey the pedal rods to see if I can get them straightened out.
Last edited by Chuck Snider R.I.P. on 15 Dec 2010 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
GFI U-12 Ultra Keyless, Carter Black U-12, both with Alumitones, and a sweet '70 Sho-Bud Permanent D-10, NV400 in Rick Johnson cabs, NV112, '73 Vibrosonic in Rick Johnson cabs, Hilton pedal, Steeler's Choice seat, Bessdang Gizmos from Dale Hansen, and a few other widgets and doodads.
I may not sound good, I just don't wanna sound bad.
Location: Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
State/Province: Texas
Country: United States
Postby Johnny Cox »
This is a later model Permanent. Late 60s maybe even early 70s. The tell tale signs are the Grover tuners and the fingertip style under carriage. These guitars typically sound great and play better than the older ones. If you don't want it let me know.
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Johnny, thanks for the info. I don't intend to let this one slip thru my fingers, so unless something unusual happens, I'll be buying this.
However, I would like to have a feel for what a reasonable price range for it would be? Any thoughts or advice on that?
By the way, I have a few E.T. CDs and I love the tunes where he calls you out to take a steel break in the tune. I always wondered who "Dumplin" was. You sounded great and I'm honored to have you respond to my question.
-Chuck
GFI U-12 Ultra Keyless, Carter Black U-12, both with Alumitones, and a sweet '70 Sho-Bud Permanent D-10, NV400 in Rick Johnson cabs, NV112, '73 Vibrosonic in Rick Johnson cabs, Hilton pedal, Steeler's Choice seat, Bessdang Gizmos from Dale Hansen, and a few other widgets and doodads.
I may not sound good, I just don't wanna sound bad.
If you have a digital camera, take pictures...lots of pictures, make charts of of what rod went in what hole on what bellcrank, etc. Lot of help here if you get yourself in a corner. Great looking piece of history.
Bill
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!!
Very cool guitar! Strangest pedal configuration that I've ever seen on a Bud. I agree with Johnny. The shape of the keyhead is another indicator of later Sixties birth, at the earliest. The Perms of that era were not really production guitars, at least to my understanding. The were pretty much custom-order, and that may account for the strange pedals. By the time this one was made, ShoBud was already bangin' out tons of guitars for Baldwin, IMO.
I don't think the pedals are special, I think the pedal rods are in the wrong positions.Exchange rods 1,2,3 with 7,8,9 and the pedals well look correct again.
Please disregard how the pedals look in the topmost picture, I had them in the wrong order. The pedals are ok once I reversed the order. I had installed them prior to taking the picture using the number stamped on the rod connector. As it turns out, the tape on the legs is in the reverse order of what is stamped on the connectors.
-Chuck
GFI U-12 Ultra Keyless, Carter Black U-12, both with Alumitones, and a sweet '70 Sho-Bud Permanent D-10, NV400 in Rick Johnson cabs, NV112, '73 Vibrosonic in Rick Johnson cabs, Hilton pedal, Steeler's Choice seat, Bessdang Gizmos from Dale Hansen, and a few other widgets and doodads.
I may not sound good, I just don't wanna sound bad.
Also looking at the photos again, this guitar has the pull system like the late model fingertips, dust catcher type fret boards, and modern style pedal connectors on the pedal rods.
Thanks Bob, are the things you point out goodness, or possible problems waiting to happen??? Since I know nothing about the Sho-Buds, I don't know if the things you point out are good or bad. Maybe they make no real difference??? Is there any way to determine the year it was built? Maybe based on the serial number???
GFI U-12 Ultra Keyless, Carter Black U-12, both with Alumitones, and a sweet '70 Sho-Bud Permanent D-10, NV400 in Rick Johnson cabs, NV112, '73 Vibrosonic in Rick Johnson cabs, Hilton pedal, Steeler's Choice seat, Bessdang Gizmos from Dale Hansen, and a few other widgets and doodads.
I may not sound good, I just don't wanna sound bad.
In the pic, it looks like there are three different styles of pedals, all being different in length. Sure looks like a "pull/release" changer to me. Just like my '59. I tried to zoom in on the fretboards, and I can't tell if they're "Dust Catchers." If so, they're later replacements, I would think. The pedal connectors are the same as on my '67 S-10 Shobud/Baldwin. So they were using them at least that early.
What's the serial number? If someone can find the link to that thread about Shobud serial numbers, maybe an approximate date can be found???
Chuck, I think these would all be good things. I want to point out that I am not an expert on these guitars, Bobbie well be quick to point this out.This guitar looks like 70's to me, but that should make it play better.The other advantage is being able to change the setup easy.If you look under the early perm's they are all welded together.
Couple more note;
In the first pic, the first, second, and third pedals don't look to me like Shobud pedals. This guitar far surpasses the earlier Perms mechanically. The switch to building them with Fingertip parts meant the guitar was no longer welded together, and "Permanent." You have movable bellcranks, so you can change your setup. The bellcranks are also the "bubble butt" cranks, with the half-spherical buttons cast into the backside of the cranks. Made for a much smoother action My '63 Fingertip has "no butt" bellcranks, making the action a bit clunkier.
For comparison, here's a pic of my '59 Perm. Note everything is welded in position. The cranks are welded to the cross shafts.
Here's a pic of my Fingertip. You can see that your guitar uses these parts, although the changer is entirely different. A real upgrade for the Perm with these parts!
The fretboard is not the cast dustcatcher style, they both appear to be the peel-n-stick type, or at least thin metal with painted/silk screened markings, and then apparently glued into place.
The serial number is 0415415.
One thing I'm not sure what they do are the 3 toggle switches on the end plate. Two of them are 2 position, and one is 3 position, which seems to allow E9 pickup, both pickups, or C6 pickup. Not sure what the other toggle switches actually do.
-Chuck
GFI U-12 Ultra Keyless, Carter Black U-12, both with Alumitones, and a sweet '70 Sho-Bud Permanent D-10, NV400 in Rick Johnson cabs, NV112, '73 Vibrosonic in Rick Johnson cabs, Hilton pedal, Steeler's Choice seat, Bessdang Gizmos from Dale Hansen, and a few other widgets and doodads.
I may not sound good, I just don't wanna sound bad.
This type of serial number's history has been elusive so far. Maybe Bobbe can help. The serial number on my F-tip is 207-207. It's a first-run guitar so,,,, '63?
Nice guitar Bob! The latch mechanism on the pedals is the same as on my '63 F-Tip. I'd bet that guitar is from right before the Fingertips, or maybe concurrent with the first ones, but before the changeover to F-Tip style parts. Like maybe '62?
John, This is not my guitar I just posted it as an example of a earlier style perm.This guitar is still played at clubs in Portland all the time, has a wonderful sound.
John,Hard to tell from the photos,I think there are no rollers.Look at the construction of the guitar,I believe it is much earlier.I don,t want to draw to much fire,so thats all I know about this one.
