Effects for PSG

Tommy Gibbons · Post by **Tommy Gibbons** » 15 Nov 2010 6:15 pm

I see items for sale here on the FORUM that I don't know exactly what they do.

With that said, what do the following do to the sound:

1. Chorus
2. Flange
3. Delay
4. Compressor
5. Others

Thanks, TommyG...

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 15 Nov 2010 7:32 pm

The first three items on your list are all essentially delay effets, only the way the delay is applied is different:

Super-short delays - under 10 milliseconds - produce comb-filtering that creates classic phase and flange sounds, particularly with plenty of feedback and a oscilating delay time to make the combing "move."

10ms to 20ms produces "chorusing" effects, again with plenty of feedback and delay oscillation to milk aforementioned comb-filtering

Between 20ms and 50ms you are in the realm of "doubling" and the feedback and oscillation will need to be fairly minimal or you will get some pretty wierd artifacts

from 80ms to 180ms or so you get a fast slapback effect, again keep the feedback relatively low to avoid stuff you don't want to hear

Delays longer than 180ms begin to be identifiable as "echo" and you begin setting feedback to generate the desired number of repeats - 190ms is a common rockabilly echo, a good balad will sometimes call for 400ms or longer; 270 to 340 seem to be what most folks gravitate to for normal consumption, here are some general guidelines

268ms - 272ms with moderate feedback creates a very versatile and musical echo which fits most anything with a faster tempo, this is a common studio tool for up-tempo rock and roll, swing, motown, etc. - it's a good starting point for new material that you haven't had time to experiment with

308ms - 340ms for mid-tempo material and some ballads

360ms - 420ms for the slower tempos, "bigger" sounding echoes for dramatic ballad action or "warehouse" rock guitar stuff

Delays longer than that are extremely prominent so are generally reserved for specific effects - "true Echoes" - on specific songs, in which case you will want to fine-tune the delay for the particular tune and tempo you have in mind.

Compressors and Limiters allow one to set a threshold above which the output is compressed, generally used to increase the loudness of soft material while keeping the peaks manageable. The compressor stomp-boxes are mostly designed to maximize sustain, real studio limiters can help to control inconsistencies with picking attack, etc.

There's of course lots more but this should get you on your way to finding some real educational resources, there's lots of knowledge here on the forum and it's pretty readily available, you might consider doing a Forum search for particular pieces of gear to see what discussions have transpired here about them in the past.

Tommy Gibbons · Post by **Tommy Gibbons** » 15 Nov 2010 7:48 pm

Lots of info here!!! Never heard it before.

Thanks, TommyG...

Jeremy Craft · Post by **Jeremy Craft** » 15 Nov 2010 9:52 pm

Great post, Dave. I'd just like to add some subjectivity:

1. Chorus makes it sound like there's another guitar playing along with yours. This can be pretty dramatic if you run a chorus into two amps and space them far apart. You can usually adjust the delay of the following guitar and its relative prominence.

2. A flanger makes it sound "wooshy" and somewhat ethereal. You can usually adjust the depth, rate, and resonant frequency of the effect. This is the only effect I use on PSG, and I use it because the guitarist I play with likes to play trippy stuff, and this helps me blend with him. Most lower-priced flangers exhibit a lot of noise in the signal, so I would suggest you try before you buy.

Georg Sørtun · Post by **Georg Sørtun** » 16 Nov 2010 1:55 am

I have "injected" the BOSS LMB-3 under "Compressors and Limiters" in a few Forum threads. Adjusted for moderate effect it is, IMO, a good "always on" first stage (pre VP) effect box for PSG in all situations, in that it both enhances the sounds and balances levels for better control of sustain without too much VP-jogging.

The LMB-3 is very playable and relatively low noise for an effect box of that nature, and it's the one and only effect box I rather not be without in my set-up anytime anywhere - I rather leave out the VP since the LMB-3 does half the job anyway.

Ray McCarthy · Post by **Ray McCarthy** » 16 Nov 2010 2:51 am

Bobbe Seymore has a video called Steel Guitar Secrets where he shows how to use the delay to do a very cool speed-picking thing. You can see part of the video on youtube. Just search for it on youtube. (I don't know how to post it)

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 16 Nov 2010 7:37 am

Georg,
what settings do you use on the BOSS LMB-3?
Do you have a picture of the settings?

Thanks
Peter

Adam Sorber · Post by **Adam Sorber** » 16 Nov 2010 7:51 am

The effect "Flanging" originated in the recording studio. When two reel to reel recorders are played back simultanously amd you put you hand on one of the reel flanges to slow one of the decks down, the "flanging" effect is created.

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 16 Nov 2010 9:50 am

There are hundreds of YouTube videos demoing guitar effects with guitar. Not quite the same as steel, but you will understand how they change the sound of an instrument.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 16 Nov 2010 11:38 am

Below is a link to descriptions of many effects courtesy of the Boss corp. It is a pretty big pdf. file so make sure you have the time and want to download it as it takes a few minutes.

Some of the most used effects for steel guitar are spatial effects like reverb and delay. These are time based effects essentially, that add in a clone of the sounded note and are variable for the rate of echo, the number of times the echo is repeated, and the volume of same. Try about 250 ms. more or less of delay, with a couple of repeats and about half as loud as your original note for a thickened effect on medium and slow ballads.

Chorus effects [modulation] are pitch based effects that alter the tuning of a picked note in various degrees. Just a touch of speed and depth will also help make your sound seem "bigger".

Flange, phasor, vibrato, pitch shifting, harmonizer and rotary effects are also modulation effects that affect the pitch of a note, and/or alter the phase or wave form of the signal. FI, a common flange algorithm is said to emulate the sound of a jet plane taking off....well sort of

Tremolo is a volume based effect in that it varies the depth and speed at which the volume is decreased and then increased.

A basic education about what various effects are capable of and how to use them alone or in combination with other effects is essential for success. One of the reason many people become frustrated and stop using effects is that they don't understand them.

As steel guitarists, reverb and delay are probably the effects most in continuous use that benefit the traditional sounds we create. Sometimes chorus, but it seems to be waning in popularity for some reason.

There are many ways to use other effects by having them in and out of the signal at selected times and for special situations.

Study how they work and how they can enhance your performance. Don't be afraid to experiment with them. Put them in your tool box and use them appropriately.

clickhere for the pdf.

Tommy Auldridge · Post by **Tommy Auldridge** » 16 Nov 2010 4:35 pm

This is good stuff to know. Also, I once saw a post that related delay time to the tempo of the song.
I fooled around with it for a while, but now I forget
exactly how to do it right. Tommy...........

Georg Sørtun · Post by **Georg Sørtun** » 17 Nov 2010 1:39 am

Peter,
no picture available atm, but my settings by the clock for normal and variations are as follows...

Level: 13:30 ... I balance it to "LMB-3 off" audible level through the rig, as it sounds just after string-attack.
Enhance: 01:30 ... var: 09:00 to 02:30.
Ratio: 11:00 ... var: 11:00 to 01:30.
Threshold: 10:15 ... var: 10:00 to 11:00.

...I usually don't adjust anything but Enhance out of normal, for variations in attack sound. Too much Enhance and it starts to sound awful (to me) and cuts through everything.

In my set-up it's always connected like: steel PU (E-66) into LMB-3, followed by VP, followed by whatever else I use of effect units (usually none), into NV112.

In addition: I use a 1 meter length of very thick HF (GHz) transmission cable from steel to LMB-3, for minimal impact. The LMB-3 acts as a match-box, so after it I use suitable lengths of more manageable, softer, HF (GHz) receiver cables.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 17 Nov 2010 9:28 pm

Here's the settings I use...

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 20 Nov 2010 11:45 am

Dave, I've been looking for one of those for 40 years. That looks pretty close to the settings I'd need to use.

Carl Mesrobian · Post by **Carl Mesrobian** » 22 Dec 2013 8:15 am

Is the output jack automatically switched on or off based on the ablility setting?

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 22 Dec 2013 8:41 am

Do people still actually put chorus on their pedal steel sound? I thought that trend died in the '80s.

To my ears, we already get a wonderful chorusing effect when we use delay because with bar vibrato, the delayed signal will be a bit de-tuned from what's being played, and that gives a nice, lush, and natural chorusing effect. The actual chorus pedal effect always seems to put a phony (cheesy?) sheen over the natural beauty of the pedal steel sound. But maybe I'm missing out on something.

Brad

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 22 Dec 2013 10:49 am

Some demos for you. I tried to find a good demo for a compressor, but didn't find much difference in the sound of the guys playing the guitar through them.

Flanger demo

Chorus Demo

Delay Demo

While I usually don't like delay on a PSG, using a delay for a doubling effect is pretty cool.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 22 Dec 2013 12:05 pm

No Carl, it's on all the time, even when I'm sleeping...

Peter Harris · Post by **Peter Harris** » 23 Dec 2013 7:27 pm

Dave Grafe wrote:No Carl, it's on all the time, even when I'm sleeping...

But do you put it before or after the volume pedal.... ????

Carl Mesrobian · Post by **Carl Mesrobian** » 23 Dec 2013 8:09 pm

All ability effects can go after the volume pedal, since, in addition to ability, they have the common sense to shut off when the volume pedal is off. This behavior is unlike other pedals (delay, for instance) that can't stop, and also unlike electric guitar players, who only stop when confronted with a chart full of jazz chords

I realize this is a generalization, but still fairly accurate

EDIT - Is anyone using a POG ?? I'm using a Match Bro for dobro effect - it's easier to carry than my dobro, although the real thing can't be beat - have been on the fence about springing for a POG

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 26 Dec 2013 2:29 pm

Rich Peterson wrote:There are hundreds of YouTube videos demoing guitar effects with guitar. Not quite the same as steel, but you will understand how they change the sound of an instrument.

Right, I just wish they would turn that d--n Fuzz off. Even when they are do demos of new guitars, the fuzz is always on. Doesn't give any idea of what the guitars sound like, played clean. Just my Rant for the day

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 28 Dec 2013 10:15 am

When I was in one of Jeff Newman's classes in Nashville, he was playing through 2 amps and had chorus on one amp only. And, it was not a lot, just enough to give a big sound. He put this method into one of his newsletters that he send out, too. Sounds like a good idea. I don't have a chorus to give it a try, but you might want to try it. Personally, I would not use much chorus.

I try to use effects so that they are not heard unless you take them away, then you notice a difference. This works for me. I want the effects to not over power the sound of the steel, but to enhance it. If I hear reverb or delay, I figure I have got too much. If I take either of them away and I can tell the difference, I figure I have them set about right. Different strokes for different folks, but this is what works for me.

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Effects for PSG

Effects for PSG

Thanks Dave

Very Interesting

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Effects for PSG