B#m chord???

Jack Willis · Post by **Jack Willis** » 15 Sep 2010 4:52 pm

I posted this in the Music section but not sure if that is the right spot. I googled the chords for Gary Allan's song "Smoke Ring in the Dark". A B#m is listed as one of the chords. I am new at this but, I see this as a Cm chord. Am I right or wrong? I don't want to play the wrong chords if possible. Thanks

Nathan Sarver · Post by **Nathan Sarver** » 15 Sep 2010 5:02 pm

The person who wrote out the chords made a mistake. It should be just B minor, or the vi chord in whatever key you're in.

Jack Willis · Post by **Jack Willis** » 15 Sep 2010 5:20 pm

Thanks, I'll go that route tomorrow. I was perplexed because i looked at the song on at least 4 websites and they all showed a B#m.

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 15 Sep 2010 5:46 pm

Calling it a B#- might be correct in some keys and/or usages. However I just checked it on YouTube. It's in D and it's a B-. This site has it as a B- as well.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/g/g ... rk_crd.htm

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 15 Sep 2010 6:02 pm

Jack - I've noticed that a lot of web sites that post lyrics with chords copy off of each other. When a mistake is made, it gets passed around from site to site.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 15 Sep 2010 7:01 pm

Play the song at home twice, once with the Bm chord and once with the B#m or Cm, and see which one sounds right.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 15 Sep 2010 7:11 pm

Jack - I've noticed that a lot of web sites that post lyrics with chords copy off of each other. When a mistake is made, it gets passed around from site to site.

So True. Actually, on Cowpie.com and CowboyLyrics.com (the only 2 I use), a lot of times it's the same moron that posts the incorrect chords (and words) on both sites. I have found that probably no less than 50% of the songs, that I have looked up, on those 2 sites are incorrect. I had one where they left out a whole verse. How does one miss that?

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 15 Sep 2010 8:44 pm

It's not only lyrics websites. I have commercial (not bootleg) songbooks with ridiculously wrong chord indications given over what appears to be the "official" sheet music. The people who edit these things appear to be piano-oriented (and/or reading-oriented) musicians who have no respect for guitar players (don't even speak of steel guitar players), so they give the chord indications scant attention.

In any case, B#m is of course Cm. If Cm doesn't sound right, it isn't.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 16 Sep 2010 1:36 am

If the song were in D#, B#m would be the correct chord, though I rarely see anything written in D#; Eb is the much more common key sig for that tonality, and Cm would be the chord in question.

My band does "Come Fly With Me" in Gb, and therefore the IV is a Cb. I'm not that comfortable thinking in Cb, but the horn guys like it fine.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 16 Sep 2010 5:14 am

I was amused to read somewhere that Becker and Fagen would idle time away on the tour bus by going through the Hal Leonard book, 'Steely Dan: Complete' and count all the wrong chords therein!

Scott Shewbridge · Post by **Scott Shewbridge** » 16 Sep 2010 2:01 pm

I suspect this thread could have come to a close after the first response, but since we're all piling on, thought I'd put my two-cents worth in.

Here are two examples of "official" published charts for Deacon Blues, one of Steely Dan's more complex songs. The first is from the Hal Leonard "Best of" book and the second from the "Complete," derided above.

"Best of" version in correct key, with fairly good representation of chords used on recording.

"Complete" version in wrong key with often poor substitutes for the original recording chords.

It's interesting to see more modern interpretations of what chords are appropriate. I've been doing some gypsy jazz stuff lately and most of the modern players are using chords like Am6 which they call a D9/A on tunes like Minor Swing. I hate it. The original recording used just a plain Am. I prefer the original, because it gives the soloist more freedom to choose what coloration to use.

Short answer though. "Sounds" like Bm is more likely. Trust your ear.

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 16 Sep 2010 2:07 pm

and even the first version Scott posted is not completely correct.. but it's very close

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 16 Sep 2010 8:08 pm

You have to use Gillette Blue Blades if you're going to B#

Jack Willis · Post by **Jack Willis** » 17 Sep 2010 6:34 am

Gettin back to the original B#, it appears to be a misprint. Bm works and Cm doesn't. Misprint it is.

Scott Shewbridge · Post by **Scott Shewbridge** » 17 Sep 2010 6:54 pm

I'm a little disappointed. I thought sure the CbMaj7 chord would have upset someone.

Can't get a good argument anywhere anymore.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 17 Sep 2010 10:51 pm

"Ricky Don't Loose That Number"...
And you could have a change of heart... Which is the name of the chord that comes in right here?

Richard Sevigny · Post by **Richard Sevigny** » 18 Sep 2010 6:02 am

I think it's a B13

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 18 Sep 2010 6:32 am

Thanks Richard.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Sep 2010 8:56 am

how can B# ever be right if it doesn't exist in the musical scale?

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 18 Sep 2010 8:56 am

I don't have time to listen to it right now, but I was thinking it was a sus2. They used a lot of interesting chord changes. Richard may be correct though.

never mind. I'm thinking of the chord before that one, sorry Richard

Scott Shewbridge · Post by **Scott Shewbridge** » 18 Sep 2010 9:38 am

I think the Rikki Don't Loose That Number chord is the infamous "Jimi Hendrix" chord, the 7#9, in this case B7#9. The bass hits the B and the piano or guitar finish the arpeggio starting with a D# and a hammer on from the G# to the A on the way up.

Playing with it right now, I just noticed something I hadn't seen before. At the end of the phrase, they end on an E, which serves as a lead tone to the root of the next chord, a plain E major. However, within the phrase, putting the G# to A together with the D# to E, and all of a sudden the "major/minorness" of the 7#9 chord becomes really ambiguous and haunting.

I just adore Fagen and Becker's stuff with all of their ambiguous and changing harmonies. I think it's similar to why I like pedal steel. Those multiple half note rises in a phrase really twist the sound around.

On the B# issue: B#=C and Cb=B. B# is used when the key signature is C# (i.e., seven sharps). It is the seventh degree in the scale. Fortunately, not much is written in C#. I've only ever seen it when playing Broadway musicals.

Jack, please forgive the internet obsessives, I still think this thread could have closed after the first response.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 18 Sep 2010 1:24 pm

chris
As Scott correctly pointed out, B# is the seventh degree of the scale if the key signature is C#, the third scale degree if in G#... theoretically, if anyone would write a score in those keys.

In my real world experience, Db and Ab are the keys of choice when those tonalities are desired. I have to play in those keys all the time.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Sep 2010 4:12 pm

i suppose..in some weird perverted musical world.

however...here's a test:

hook your guitar up to a chromatic tuner.
play your B# note on your steel.
what does the all-knowing tuner say this note is?
(hint...'C')

Scott Shewbridge · Post by **Scott Shewbridge** » 18 Sep 2010 4:46 pm

Chris - how dare you imply that children in the San Joaquin Valley are weird and perverted. They are using the B# every single day. Just look at the C# major key signature in one of their lessons here:

The Seven Sharp Key Signatures - Care of the Empire School District

I will leave it up to Mr. Steiner to find an example of the key signature for G# major.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 18 Sep 2010 5:08 pm

Well, Scott, actually there is no real key of G# major; it doesn't exist, and I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that.

A G# chord does exist though, and the third tone is a B#, as is the 7th tone of the C# scale, which you previously pointed out.

For that matter, Cb chord exists as well, the IV chord of Gb key. Of course chris' digital tuner will say "bullsh!t... it's a "B"!!!"

The Circle of 4ths/5ths, as you well know, goes from F# to Gb. Or vice versa.