Intonation

David Dixon · Post by **David Dixon** » 5 Sep 2010 5:40 am

Does the pedal steel have ways to adjust the intonation, or is that done by ear alone. My reason for asking is that my LDG seems to be at a slightly different position over the fret based on location up the neck and pdeals and levers used. I know in the guitar world intonation can be adjusted.

Butch

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 5 Sep 2010 7:48 am

PSG are perfect and string manufactures make flawless strings and the fact that a lead guitar player has adjustments for intonation on his guitar proves that it's stupid. I'm kidding
David the consensus here on the Forum is that there is no need for an adjustment for intonation on a steel.
On a standard guitar you push the string down on the fret and that stretches the string and changes the pitch slightly and affects each string gauge differently. Therefore a need for an adjustment for each string.
On a steel guitar you place the fret (bar) onto the strings and the stretching is very slight therefore no need for adjustment.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 5 Sep 2010 8:02 am

the closer you get your open strings in tune and then your pedal changes to the comfort zone, the better it will sound up the neck. try to keep your bar straight and aim for the frets but ultimately use your ear for bar placement.

Tim Heidner · Post by **Tim Heidner** » 5 Sep 2010 8:16 am

I've noticed something weird, if I tune up open strings certain strings don't register the same when I put the bar on the strings.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 5 Sep 2010 8:41 am

You need to work on your tuning and take some lessons from an advanced player. Pedal steels do not all tune out the same.

Tim Heidner · Post by **Tim Heidner** » 5 Sep 2010 10:54 am

Could also be mechanical detuning, something that's been giving me fits.

Mash one pedal and the other string goes flat.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 5 Sep 2010 11:43 am

Tim,
I have a method of tuning out the mechanical drop in this topic, which you may find useful:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

Tim Heidner · Post by **Tim Heidner** » 5 Sep 2010 11:55 am

Richard, my biggest problem was with the 6th string going flat on the A+F chord. I put a compensator rod on that one and fixed it right up. Then I went wild and put rods on all the rest of the strings that were giving me even a small detuning, but that hasn't worked out so well just yet.
I think I need to add some separate bell cranks specifically for the compensators. It started to look like a spaghetti bowl underneath with rods crossing over and I think rods were rubbing and not returning to pitch correctly, things were hanging up on each other.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 5 Sep 2010 1:22 pm

The sixth string is always a problem, but cabinet drop can be minimised by using a wound string.

I won't entertain a plain sixth, it's just too troublesome.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 5 Sep 2010 3:14 pm

You may be causing problems with those compensators. 6th string drop is common and can be tuned to compensate.

Tim Heidner · Post by **Tim Heidner** » 5 Sep 2010 3:37 pm

I couldn't tune mine to compensate, it was 13 cents flat.
I took all the other ones off and just using the one right now.

Rick Kreuziger · Post by **Rick Kreuziger** » 7 Sep 2010 4:51 am

On a related note to the original post...
I had a weird intonation issue Sunday... during a gig I noticed my 8th string (E) was flat... tuned it up a touch on the fly, then later checked it in the open position with a tuner and found it was sharp.

After some closer inspection at home I found that my E's (4th & 8th strings) would be on pitch in the open position, but at the 12th fret it would take almost a half fret slant to have them in tune with each other! (Lower E was flat).
I found that the 8th string in the recently changed set of strings was bad.

Rick

David Dixon · Post by **David Dixon** » 7 Sep 2010 9:38 am

Thanks Rick.

That is the type issue that I am having. I will check the strings out. That is a big help.

Butch

Jason Hull · Post by **Jason Hull** » 7 Sep 2010 10:38 am

The PSG could be improved with a mechanism for adjusting individual string length.

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 7 Sep 2010 11:30 am

Linear pull changers do not have this problem. Take a look at the changers on Lamar and Excel guitars.

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 7 Sep 2010 11:49 am

Is the fretboard aligned properly?......just a thought.

Tim Kowalski · Post by **Tim Kowalski** » 7 Sep 2010 1:38 pm

If your steel is not brand new, it would be a good idea to start by tightening all of the cabinet screws. Tighten the neck, changer mounting screws, keyhead, end plates etc. Measure your cabinet drop before and after. You could be amazed at the improvement.
We often over-complicate very simple and inexpensive (free) solutions. Tightening loose hardware WILL minimize intonation problems. Then you can work out the real tuning issues. If your guitar is loose, you will chase the problem until you sell it from frustration.
I have tried lately to be less hung up on perfect tuning and just play the thing.

Hope this is helpful.
Tim

Tim Heidner · Post by **Tim Heidner** » 7 Sep 2010 4:56 pm

That's good advice, Tim Kowalski, I'm going to check into that.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 7 Sep 2010 6:44 pm

There is something wrong on the guitar if you are getting 13 cents flat drop on the 6th string with the A pedal pushed. As mentioned above endplate and tail plate screws need to be tightened within reason. No need to tighten the neck screws as it will choke the tone out of the guitar.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 7 Sep 2010 8:10 pm

Kevin Hatton wrote:No need to tighten the neck screws as it will choke the tone out of the guitar.

So then, what's the ideal torque setting for the neck screws?

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 7 Sep 2010 8:52 pm

Kevin's correct, a too tight neck will choke off the tone.

I tighten all the neck screws till they just start to grip, then slacken them off about 1/8 of a turn.

There is a slight increase in cabinet drop, which I can cope with.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 8 Sep 2010 11:46 am

Ideal is snug.

Tim Heidner · Post by **Tim Heidner** » 8 Sep 2010 7:12 pm

Well, that must be what the problem is. One of the endplate screws is just turning in the cabinet wood, stripped, and I can wiggle the plate around by pushing on the legs. On the other end by the changer, one of those is loose but I don't know that I can get a screwdriver in there without taking the changer apart again, and I just did that on Saturday. That was a chore. $:\$
The neck screws are really tight, and one of the crossrod mount screws seems to be stripped, too.

Pat Comeau · Post by **Pat Comeau** » 8 Sep 2010 11:26 pm

You can also try a plain 20 gauge for th 6th string if you have a 22...smaller gauge will give less cabinet drop and tunning problem.

JMO..........Pat C.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 9 Sep 2010 6:35 am

Tim, your stripped screw holes can be fixed like this:
Whittle or turn or sand a piece of wood (hardwood dowel is the easiest)to a size that permits you to slide it into the hole..not too loosely. Use some carpenter's glue on the dowel and tap it in place and let dry. Then you drill out a hole for the screw with a bit that is a bit smaller than the diameter of the wood screw. Then you drive the screw home but not too tight.

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Intonation

Intonation

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