"Sensing" the key of the song

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 31 Aug 2010 5:37 pm

I think I read in a past posting (possibly attributed to Jeff Newman) that an often successful way to find he "current" chord in a song run the bar up the 8th string until you match.

I can't create an "E" note from memory, but once I've heard an "E" I can tune the rest of the 10 string by ear.

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 1 Sep 2010 5:14 pm

Greg. I think I understand what you are saying. You hear a song playing and can hum what the root of what the key is. I can do that as well, tho it may take a little time to get it correct. I just hum a note that fits with the song and go up or down to find the root. If you can do it first hum, you have a great ear.
How does it work? For me, just years of hearing and playing
and association and, trying to find the root using that method.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 1 Sep 2010 5:48 pm

Here we go again with terms.

Explain ROOT and TONIC and DOM7.

What are we talkin' about here?

Chords?

Scales?

or Notes?

Everyone seems to have a differnt idea of what Root, Tonic, and Dom7 are.

Why can't we just say, like we used to do, C F and G - and maybe an A minor?

This stuff annoys me to no end.

Thanks!

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 1 Sep 2010 10:07 pm

Some time back I explained 1, 4 and 5 chords to the 7 year old daughter of one of my guitar playing friends. I told her that the 1 chord felt like you were at home, the 4 chord felt like you were in church, and the 5 chord felt like you were outside in the rain, getting soaked and you wanted to go home.

I illustrated this by singing "Shave and a hair cut, two" and left off the last word "bits" explaining how the unfinished tune was the 5 chord, and she understood the concept.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 1 Sep 2010 10:23 pm

Chip Fossa wrote:Here we go again with terms.

Explain ROOT and TONIC and DOM7.

What are we talkin' about here?

Chip, these terms are very common among schooled musicians. They are among the the things I mention in my book.

http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?Produ ... Compositio'

It's true that I make some money- about a dollar for every copy sold. But that's not why I tell you (and everybody else) that you really ought to buy a copy and study it. I say this because if you do that, it will explain what these things mean, help you understand how music is put together, and give you the tools to be more creative. (And of course, when you do, I'll send you the free steel guitar supplement.)

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 1 Sep 2010 11:30 pm

Galsses? Maybe click on spell check, too, Mike.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 2 Sep 2010 1:07 am

John McClung wrote:Galsses? Maybe click on spell check, too, Mike.

Yes John, Galsses. My signature refers to my harem.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 2 Sep 2010 4:19 pm

Why can't we just say, like we used to do, C F and G - and maybe an A minor?

'cause different keys involve different starting points, but the intervals between the chords stays the same.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 3 Sep 2010 1:24 am

The galsses in my harem tend towards the hefty, more and more these days - trying to find the pedals is a problem, but at least them muscular galsses can tote my amp.

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 3 Sep 2010 2:58 am

Here in Southwestern NY, a friend I have known for 50 years totes his steel in, but his wife sets it up and tears it down.
They are both in their 70's. I guess that's teamwork.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 3 Sep 2010 10:14 am

Please, let's get back on to the subject. My "Galses" joke (Which was delinerate and not a typo) was cute for a day or 2, but let's not go off on a silly tangent.

Notice that I changed my signature to something more relevant.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 3 Sep 2010 10:40 am

Is this song in G mayor or e minor. I would say it's in G. What is right and why?
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=188806

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 3 Sep 2010 11:17 am

It's pretty vague, but it feels like Em way to me. I can't objectively justify that. It's just my subjective feeling.

BTW Little Wing is a very good vehicle for a steel guitar instrumental. The rock band in that video I've posted a few times used to play it. I only took a ride, but I could see the song's potential.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 3 Sep 2010 1:48 pm

Well Mike...

I'm not a schooled musician. I bought your book and have read it from page one to the end.

I know how music is put together. And I consider myself pretty creative; In spite of my lack of "schooling".

It just seemed not everyone here was on the same page.

I almost got an education once. SCHOOL got in the way.

If you had checked your sales invoices, or remembered my previous reply, you would know that I was one of the first here on the Forum to, not only buy your Music Book and Firebird CD, but also support you and your endeavours.

Do yourself a favor, and try not to be so condescending. It really is unbecoming to someone of your caliber.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 3 Sep 2010 2:09 pm

Do yourself a favor, and try not to be so condescending. It really is unbecoming to someone of your caliber.

oh, come on. man, I'm tired of the dumbing down of the world. If you don't know what a dom7, tonic, or root are at this stage in the game, it takes 2 seconds and an internet search to discover.

Or should we just talk in baby talk from now on. This is a forum for musicians. No one is asking you to figure out tritone substitutions. This is the BASIC stuff. It would be like a plumber refusing to learn the names of his tools.

There is no crime in being ignorant. To wear ignorance as some sort of badge of honor is foolish.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 3 Sep 2010 3:28 pm

Bill, didn't I acknowledge what those chords are?

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 3 Sep 2010 3:31 pm

Let's go back to the topic. Somebody's cornfused here. Don't shout at me. Cuz I can shout right back!

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 3 Sep 2010 4:48 pm

Chip, I didn't mean to be condescending, and I apologize if I came off that way. I sometimes don't choose my words as well as I should have, and probably should have used a different word other than "schooled."

But 2 things remain true. 1- these terms are very common, and used by hundreds of thousands of musicians every day, and 2- far too many musicians (not just steel guitarists) have not learned what they mean.

There seems to be a school of thought that says it's at least unnecessary, if not actually better, to NOT know how to read music, or learn any of the fundamentals of music theory, that somehow knowing this stuff is a bad thing that will hinder your playing.

We've all hear the joke "I can read music but not enough to hurt my playing."

I think that's nonsense. Reading music and playing by ear are not only not incompatible, I say being able to read helps me play by ear better, and being able to play by ear makes me a better reader.

I believe the European classical teaching model of only training people to play by reading notes, and not teaching them to play by ear is woefully inadequate. We've all met people who are utterly dependent on the written note, and haven't what to play without a piece of paper telling them. It's not that they are necessarily untalented, but that there was something missing in their education.

Likewise, I also believe there is something missing in the education of those who can only play by ear and not read.

I believe that all musicians should learn how to hear chord progressions and play by ear, AND learn how to read music, as well as some elementary music theory. Learning one doesn't make you forget the other.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 3 Sep 2010 5:16 pm

Thanks Mike...

I'm with you 100%.

Many responders, on this thread, seemed a bit confused about TERMINOLOGY. And .... I got CORNFUSED myself.

I read your book, back in 2000 or whenever it first came out.

It's topics like these that make me scratch my head. It's 1 - 4 - 5 to me.

I love ya, brother. OK - let's move on.

That's it.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 3 Sep 2010 6:08 pm

Chip Fossa wrote:
1 - 4 - 5 to me.

That's a good place to start, but there's a lot more to it than that.

Back around '83 or'84 I told a guy I was in a band with that some song went to a 4 chord at one point, and he answered "I'm just a country boy. Don't use those musicians terms on me. Just tell me the name of the chord." That still bothers, even after all these years, which may explain why I'm so adamant about people learning this stuff.

This incident was undoubtedly an extreme example of the kind of thinking I was talking about in my previous post. But there are far too many people who's attitude about learning the ins and outs of how music is made, believe "wee don nede noe steenkin ejookashun."

BTW to nobody's surprise I'm sure, I left the band very shortly after that conversation.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 3 Sep 2010 6:41 pm

Fair enough.