Curious about gas prices

Pat Dawson · Post by **Pat Dawson** » 12 Oct 2005 7:03 am

Turbo man - Something tells me you are not driving a 6000lb (2724kg). Dodge Ram Hemi 42 miles (6762km) each way to work at 80 mph (129 km/h).

Neither am I, thank goodness.

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1970 Emmons D10
1987 Emmons D10
Nashville 1000
Fender Super 60

Darrell Schmidt · Post by **Darrell Schmidt** » 12 Oct 2005 7:44 am

JUST DROPPED TO $2.39 HERE IN CHARLES CITY.
DARRELL

Ron Elliott · Post by **Ron Elliott** » 12 Oct 2005 9:19 am

Just came back from Louisville, KY @ $2.71 back to Nashville @$2.99.9

JAMES BANKS · Post by **JAMES BANKS** » 12 Oct 2005 9:53 am

$269 per gallon here today for regular.

James

john buffington · Post by **john buffington** » 12 Oct 2005 10:28 am

In Tulsa $2.49 a gallon - 120 miles away in OKC, $2.21- 2.27 a gallon and the news media tell us Tulsa requires cleaner gas (which supposedly costs more) than OKC and they are a bigger city with more cars than us! Go figure that one out!!!!!!!!
John Buffington

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Oct 2005 11:13 am

Remember, Americans still pay more for a gallon of bottled water than they do for a gallon of gasoline.

What's bottled water prices got to do with gas prices? I believe that's what's called a "non-sequitur" line of reasoning. Anyhow, if people knew how unsafe bottle water was...they probably wouldn't be drinking it.

In 1999, for example, the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) tested more than 1,000 bottles of 103 brands of bottled water, and found that while "most bottled water apparently is of good quality," "about one-third of the waters tested contained levels of contamination -- including synthetic organic chemicals, bacteria, and arsenic -- in at least one sample that exceeded allowable limits under either state or bottled water industry standards or guidelines."

IMHO, people who buy bottled water (hurricane victims excepted), are about as smart as those who bought "Pet Rocks" back in the '70s. Barnum was right.

(Oh, BTW, gas prices here $2.80-$2.90)[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 12 October 2005 at 12:14 PM.]

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 12 Oct 2005 11:23 am

$2.79 in Slagle, La. I just paid $42 for 15 gallons, and if you were in my car on the way home from the grocery store you might hear some big bread and big milk bashing.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum SD12U, Carter D10 8/8, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Bob Knight · Post by **Bob Knight** » 12 Oct 2005 12:38 pm

There has also been significant increases in the cost of bread and milk! I wonder why there isn't also an outcry about the obscene prices imposed by "Big Bread" or "Big Milk"?

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I'm thinking that it takes "Big Oil" to transport big bread, big milk, and about everything else we buy and use to our retailers.

Gas is $2.819 in Bowling Green KY.

Larry Self · Post by **Larry Self** » 12 Oct 2005 12:56 pm

THANK YOU-----------GEORGE

Allen Peterson · Post by **Allen Peterson** » 12 Oct 2005 1:27 pm

Donny,

My point is that some people don't mind spending a lot of money on bottled water, but they scream to high heaven about the prices of gasoline, which happens to be a non-renewable source of energy.

So, I guess I agree with you. I don't buy bottled water either. Although I bet those people in New Orleans that are having to drink sewer water wouldn't mind having a drink of bottled water about now.

What is "non-sequitur" reasoning? Never heard of it.

Allen Peterson

Bill Myrick · Post by **Bill Myrick** » 12 Oct 2005 2:19 pm

I bought gas in Vandalia, Mo. for 17.9 during a gas war ---coarse that's been hmmmm 1955 I guess darn how time flies !!!

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 12 Oct 2005 2:40 pm

Well, the obvious retort to the bottled water vs. gas prices question is that we're not forced to buy the former, but gas is so vital to everyone's lines of communication and supply that it's not long before the price of everything goes through the roof - hence our $3.49 gallons of milk here in FL.

The hidden problem is: how much of this extra petrol cost is going on people's credit cards? I'm resisting that for now, but my Lincoln takes a bit of filling up!

In the UK, we've lived with very high taxation on fuel for years, but wages - in general - have tended to keep up. It'll be a while before that happens here, and that'll be another consequence.

I'm not apportioning blame - I don't understand the refining business like Allen does, but it's a slippery slope!

RR

Willis Vanderberg · Post by **Willis Vanderberg** » 12 Oct 2005 2:45 pm

And then to add insult to injury, the government wants to subsidize the building of new refineries ? As if seven billion won't build a new refinery ?
My main question is why the big profits, if they are only recovering increased cost of a barrel of oil ? Maybe someone could explain why gas in Florida is now 15 to 20 cents higher than Michigan, when it has always been 15 to 20 cents lower ?
I think we are buying HalliGallons...

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 12 Oct 2005 3:34 pm

If the oil company's are only passing on the increased cost of a barrel of oil,how did Exxon go from two billion dollars profit in the second quarter to seven billion in the third quarter ?

As if seven billion won't build a new refinery ?

Why would Exxon want to spend a billion dollars to build a refinery only to sell gas for less??

Now I'm not real bright. But I think someones taking advantage of the situation.

I bought regular today for only $269.

[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 12 October 2005 at 09:16 PM.]

Larry King · Post by **Larry King** » 12 Oct 2005 5:56 pm

Colcord, Oklahoma today...2.37...cheaper than Siloam

Torben Koch · Post by **Torben Koch** » 12 Oct 2005 10:15 pm

Hey Pat
You are absolutly right - I can drive 56 miles on a gallon. haha
Hope that the gasolin prices will go much lower than now.

Turbo www.pedalsteel4u.dk

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George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 13 Oct 2005 2:34 am

I guess some of the price differances come from where your area gets their crude oil from. Prices between Northern and Southern Minnesota differ a lot also. We get our oil from Canada & Alaska, or at least most of it so I'm wondering how much huricane damage was done there to cause such an increase in prices????

Our gasoline prices have gone down some but home heating oil and diesel fuel still haven't gone down at all. I can't think of anything that isn't effected by the cost of transportation.

Geo

Allen Peterson · Post by **Allen Peterson** » 13 Oct 2005 4:11 am

Roger,

Your point is well taken, we don't need bottled water to survive. But we do need a lot of other commodities that are allowed to conform to free market pricing, such as food and housing. There is never an attempt to control the prices on these things. Yet, the government over the years has occupied much of their efforts trying to provide low cost energy to the masses. Until recently, there have been price controls on natural gas and gasoline. These have been lifted and now we are seeing the prices conform to natural market conditions like every other commodity that we need to have to survive.

Americans are spoiled. They are used to low cost fuel. Soon as something happens to change that they get all up in arms and blame the oil companies. The oil companies don't do a very good job of PR. They allow the likes of Enron to almost get away with crookery. But the energy sector is not a police force. Still there is no reason why the free market should not be allowed to prevail in the energy markets just like it does in the bottled water or steel guitar market.

Allen Peterson

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 13 Oct 2005 10:50 am

I didn't know about the lifting of price restrictions, Allen - that's interesting.

All along, I've been getting the distinct feeling that, behind all the other 'justifications' for swingeing increases in gas prices, there's been some market-testing going on. There's no doubt that, human nature being what it is, should gas prices eventually subside to last year's level (or just above) and settle for a while at around $1.95 on average, we'll all feel pretty good about it!

I'm a comparatively new resident in the USA, and I used to get great mileage out of teasing my old friends in England about the fact that I could buy petrol at $.79 a gallon (that was in VA in summer, '98) - they may have noticed that I've gone a bit quiet lately!

I'll be glad when some of those SUVs get culled - more room for ancient 'Town Cars' like mine.....

RR
PS: I still get around 27 mpg on the Interstate - not too bad!

Allen Peterson · Post by **Allen Peterson** » 13 Oct 2005 11:18 am

Roger,

I don't know the exact date, but I think price restrictions on oil and natural gas were lifted in the 1970s, when the US lost control of the oil industry to OPEC.

I would like to see gasoline prices at about $1.95 too.

I was in the UK a couple of years ago and I couldn't believe the prices for petrol. It's kind of deceiving because they are listed as price per liter. Most of us in the US can't relate to the liter.

Allen Peterson

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 13 Oct 2005 2:44 pm

Allen, you make several good points, but there's a couple of things I'm missing, here...
First of all, if bottled water prices are too high, then I'll drink the stuff that comes out of the tap. 35 bucks a month, including trash pick-up twice a week.
Second, I don't have to buy a NEW steel guitar. This Forum has several used (read that: ALTERNATIVE) steels, and some at quite a bargain.
And third, are there ANY oil companies going out of business???? So a 700 mil platform is lost. The capacity may not pay for the output, but that 30% plus profit is figured AFTER losses, correct? Hence the term, PROFIT???
Now, I think EVERY American business ought to turn a profit. Stimulates the economy, creates jobs, etc. But throwing THAT kind of profit numbers in our faces, while screaming about demand, and natural disasters, just doesn't ring true, to me.
The company that I work for is currently under Ch. 11 bankruptcy. The former CEO gave himself a nice 5 million dollar bonus, the year the company declared bankruptcy! I guess the big boys tune tempered, and I'm still trying to play straight up.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 13 Oct 2005 9:51 pm

As hard as I try. I just can't bring myself to feel sorry for the oil Co.

Just so we don't get shut down here. I paid $269 for regular tonite. Things are looking up.

Allen Peterson · Post by **Allen Peterson** » 14 Oct 2005 4:19 am

Stephen,

First, I was just using bottled water as an example, but it is a good one. If the price of gasoline goes up too high, the consumer will quit using it just like you will quit drinking bottled water. They will buy more economical cars, start car pooling, turn the heater down in the winter, drive less, ride a bike,walk more, etc. The demand will go down and the supply will go up. This will result in a price drop.

Second, you are correct. No one is putting the gun to your head to make you buy a new steel guitar. But even the price of used steels is controlled by what the market will bear. You are not going to sell a used ShoBud for $500 less than it is worth. When you sell, you will try to get top dollar, unless of course you are making a gift to someone. On the consumer side you are not going to pay $500 more than the ShoBud is worth are you?

Third, oil companies do not control the prices. The market does. The market is driven by supply and demand. When the supply is down due to some natural disaster or whatever, the demand for the product goes up. This has been seen directly in the oil prices this week. At the begining of the week oil was trading at about $65/barrel. Then it dropped to about $63/barrel. This has caused the price at the pump to drop this week as well.

You are absolutely correct, oil companies are making huge profits right now. But let's look back a few years and see what was happening in the oil business. In 1986, when oil dropped to $9.00 per barrel, most of my oil field friends lost their jobs. What made this worse is they left the business and never came back. We are talking about degreed professionals with families and a mortgage. There were over 1 million oil field jobs lost between 1982 and 1989. The standard joke in the oil business was the marquee at the Burger King that said, "all our geologists have master's degrees."

The business virtually collapsed to the point that the average age of a professional geologist or engineer today is 50. There are few youngsters coming into the business because of the fear of layoffs. I barely survived four major layoffs. The collapse caused megamergers like EXXONMobil, ChevronTexaco and ConocoPhillips. On the independent side, where I work, most of them went out of business. Right now the oil business is booming, but it will bust.

I don't understand how you are coming up with the 30% profit. Could you explain that a little better for me?

Sorry to hear that your company is bankrupt. I know this must be tough for you. I think it is a shame that one or two corrupt individuals can make everyone in an organization miserable. Keep playing straight up. At least you will be able to sleep at night. I worked for some crooks in the early 80s and it was tough.

Allen Peterson

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 14 Oct 2005 7:41 am

Downtown Chicago $3.13

South West Burbs $2.89

Richard E. Lee · Post by **Richard E. Lee** » 14 Oct 2005 7:59 am

Upstate NY..(Rochester Area)
$2.81 cheapest..I've seen locally
$2.89 - $2.98 average
For the 87 Octane...we don't have the 85 here for some stange reason. At lesat I've never seen it..