Fanciful Arrangements And Creative Melodies

[Bill Hankey]

The arrangements to some songs can be challenging to piece together, while others seem to be a simple matter by falling into place after just a few tries. There must be a reasonable explanation for the differences acknowledged.

[richard burton]

The former is called Jazz, the latter is called Country

[David Beckner]

Bill
As a new player I am noticing more and more how simplistic some songs are to figure out when compared to others.I have wondered about this myself and the only conclusion I have been able to come up with is 'some songs are actually based on melody lines from sons past.Maybe songs back in time before you or I were born that have either been added to or had parts taken away from them.
I dont think that genre' has any thing to do with it.

[Brian Henry]

That is interesting because I have been thinking along the same lines. Music can be perceived either as challenging or straightforward. I think that there may be a gender connection. In the language domain, where music is located, males appear to have greater left hemisphere control than females. Despite some overlap of neural structures and processes for the perception of music and language, gender differences of musical functions have so far not been reported. Data sets of three previous music experiments with event-related brain potentials (ERPs) were pooled and re-analyzed. Results demonstrate that an electrophysiological correlate of music-syntactic processing (ERAN, or music-syntactic MMN) is generated bilaterally in females, and with right hemispheric predominance in males. The present findings indicate that gender differences for the analysis of musical auditory information are not restricted to processes in the linguistic domain such as syntax, semantics, and phonology.

[Barry Blackwood]

That is interesting because I have been thinking along the same lines. Music can be perceived either as challenging or straightforward. I think that there may be a gender connection. In the language domain, where music is located, males appear to have greater left hemisphere control than females. Despite some overlap of neural structures and processes for the perception of music and language, gender differences of musical functions have so far not been reported. Data sets of three previous music experiments with event-related brain potentials (ERPs) were pooled and re-analyzed. Results demonstrate that an electrophysiological correlate of music-syntactic processing (ERAN, or music-syntactic MMN) is generated bilaterally in females, and with right hemispheric predominance in males. The present findings indicate that gender differences for the analysis of musical auditory information are not restricted to processes in the linguistic domain such as syntax, semantics, and phonology.

Bill, this makes perfect sense, don't you think?

[Bob Simons]

Coming lately and reluctantly to "country music" I agree there are two kinds of tunes...
1) the simple, endlessly repetitious, predictable and unadventurous tunes called "country music"

[note the Country Music Hall of Fame has an entire exhibit dedicated to the idea that the music is so simple and predictable that studio bands can record tunes they never heard before or practiced.]

and 2) Everything else!

[Richard Damron]

It's quite simple and might be termed "compositional complexity".

Someone - once upon a time - composed "Mary Had A Little Lamb".

Someone else - once upon a time - composed "All The Things You Are".

The former can be grasped in two minutes or less - even by the novice.

The latter is, in a sense, a test of one's musicianship.

Personal preference in music would, initially, dictate which of the two are to be attempted. Being cognizant of one's musical abilities may well impose a limitation which precludes any effort to master the latter - regardless of interest.

To endure the travails in piecing together a relatively complicated tune such as "All The Things You Are" - even in failure - should not be viewed as folly. It's a learning experience from which knowledge is gained and may be applied elsewhere.

I personally welcome the occasional swim in unchartered waters. It always raises the excitement level. After all - isn't that what this thing called music is all about - to discover delightful sounds heretofore unheard?

Ya can't hear 'em if ya don't try playin' 'em.

Carry on, pickers!

Respectfully,

Richard

[b0b]

The difference is in your ability to memorize it. Having recently learned "All The Things You Are", what strikes me isn't that it's hard to play, but rather that it's hard to remember. It's easy to lose your place in the long, non-repetitive chord progression.

Since most of us must look at our hands instead of looking at the sheet music, memorization becomes an essential skill. "Mary Had A Little Lamb" is short and can be played in one or two positions. Easy to memorize. "All The Things You Are" is long and uses many positions on the neck. Harder to memorize.

[Barry Blackwood]

Here's a guy that memorized it pretty good ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM1wOVP0oac

[Richard Damron]

Good point, b0b. But your post also shows that it's your musicianship which allows you to venture all over the neck in order to play a multitude of changes in a variety of inversions and voicings. I do not discount the ability to readily memorize the simplicity in one versus the complexity in the other.

'Twould appear that the two must go hand-in-hand.

[Richard Damron]

Barry Blackwood - THANK YOU!

Hank didn't miss any changes, did he?

Outta sight.

[Stephen Silver]

says it's Gary Burton on the vibes, someone said he was 16!!! If that is the case.......wow!

Somewhere I have a cassette that Buddy Cage gave me of Julian Tharpe and Gary Burton that was incredible.

Wonder if it's still in the 'cassette' box.

SS

[Bill Hankey]

Music is so precious, much like a dear lifetime friendship that grows with the passing of time. When we return to a familiar melody, more often than not, the notes will yield new promises, if the manner of striking each note produces the fidelity within our capabilities. Practice and dedication will bring us closer to the ultimate precision of selective musical presentations. A single note can be played in many different techniques and styles. I've learned that musical expressions must satify the player, long before they are offered for the enjoyment of others.

[Brian Henry]

Yes Bill,
Music is so precious. My definition of music is "organized sound". However, this definition is rather unsatisfactory since it is too broad; there are many types of organized sound that are usually not considered music such as human speech or the beeping of an alarm clock.

Other definitions, such as "music is organized tones", as suggested by some early philosophers, are too narrow, because there are many forms of music that do not use a tonal scale. Percussive music and atonal music are good examples. There are many different ways of denoting the fundamental aspects of music which extend beyond tones: popular aspects include melody, harmony and rhythm. However, Musique concrete often consists only of sound samples of non-musical nature, sometimes in random juxtaposition. Ambient music may often consist merely of recordings of wildlife or nature. The arrival of these avant-garde forms of music in the 20th century have been a major challenge to traditional views on music, leading to broader characterizations. Some people consider these forms to no longer be musical, and better categorized under the broader label of "sound art".

A preeminent figure in the development of avant-garde music in the 20th century is Cage. His work, 4'33" is a central test case for any definition of music. In it, a performer sits on stage for four minutes and thirty-three seconds and produces no sounds. Cage intended the piece to not be produced by the performer, but by the environment around the performer. After all, there are always sounds around us no matter where we go, and no concert hall is perfectly quiet. Cage believes that any sounds could be considered as music, and this idea is reflected in many of his works.

[Bill Hankey]

tbhenry,

All things are subject to changes. One of the most rewarding of changes comes along after years of dedication to the music that has filled our lives with so much happiness. Musical maturation does not occur in the early stages of career musicians. It becomes obvious when the heart attaches itself to the hopes and dreams that we carry with us throughout our lives. That extra drive to play better, and to improve beyond former expectations are my thoughts on musical maturation.

[Tommy Shown]

It's like a line out of a Bob Wills song.
"You can take the words
of an old song
Re arrange it
and make it swing"
I am of the opinion, that a great song is like a great wine... they get better with age.

[Bill Hankey]

b0b,

In response to your bid to bring closer the "reader" musician, I vividly recall Chester Atkins' reply to persistent questioning by the Springfield Symphony Orchestra's appointed directors managing guest appearances. Chet commented that they repeatedly inquired about his ability to "read". He responded by saying, "Not enough to hurt my music". There is a world of differences between "readers" and those who have a natural affinity to creative music. Inclusively, Atkins, Emmons, Day phenoms, and so many others have gone far beyond all reasonable expectancies to become creative in a musical sense. I'm not aware of any discussions about "playing by ear" in past threads on this forum. I believe that "reading" may prevent a truly fine musician from becoming effectively creative.

[Brian Henry]

There is a wide spectrum between playing by ear and sight-reading music. At one extreme of this spectrum is the performance of a musical savant who can play on the piano with amazing fidelity some complex music he has heard for the first time. At the other extreme is a professional Hollywood musician who can play his part upon first reading as though he had been practicing it for weeks. Most instrumentalists play somewhere between these two ends of the spectrum.

I’ve observed that some musicians who are fairly far out at one end of this spectrum or the other hold a surprisingly degree of awe about the musicians at the other end. I’ve heard musicians who play very well by ear discount their skill and express envy of the musician who can more literally play from sheet music. And I’ve heard musicians who are excellent sight-readers express envy of those musicians who play by ear. These must be cases of grass looking greener on the other side of the fence.

All musicians deserve credit, however, for playing by ear, more or less. A musician who is sight-reading is not some sort of computer with an optical scanner reading the sheet music and sending signals to his arms, hands and fingers to press this or that key with so much pressure. There’s a brain operating in the middle of all of that, which adds rich musical interpretation, based on prior musical experience and overall life experience of emotions. The musician is telling a story in sound as he is playing. He is playing by ear, even if he doesn’t give himself credit for that

[Bill Hankey]

tbhenry,

I know for certain that scholastic abilities have nothing whatever in common with musical brilliancies
recognized in rare instances by appreciative musicians who develop a yearning to better understand exceedingly talented individuals. Hope clings to those who follow a lifelong effort to gain insight allowing for a better understanding of supernormal musicians.

[Brian Henry]

Bill, With regard to supernormal musicians I think it is pertinent to introduce introspection.

The field of introspection is one’s own inner being. Buried herein is a treasure-trove of immense spiritual and musical wealth. Futile then is the need of seeking it in the outer world. In fact, the intrinsic virtues have been described as inate by the seers. The musician has to mould his thinking as well as activities according to the set goal.

Musicians do not become expert in either vocal or instrumental music in a day. They have to make a persistent effort. In the absence of practice, the voice of a vocalist sounds erratic and jarring and the fingers of an instrumentalist lack coordination.

A true artist remains indifferent both to the reaction of the audience and to the remuneration paid to him. He feels contented with the joy derived from his daily meditation of music. A true devotee of art would maintain his inner peace even if he does not get any immediate and tangible reward or recognition for his art. He would continue to play music without any lessening of interest, even though he may have to dwell in a hut in a remote forest. (Jeff Newman had a hut where he coached us one on one.) The mental make-up of a person practicing should have at least this much dedication and commitment.

Steel guitarists, dancers, actors, sculptors, etc. know the importance of daily practice to maintain their art. Soldiers participate compulsorily in routine parades to maintain their skills of marksmanship and fighting.

Fulfilment of an inner resolution for some worldly purpose may be achieved by performing the specific song or just chanting it for a fixed number of times. But the mere ritual will not satisfy a true aspirant. He understands that in order to mine the gems of his hidden talents he must plunge into the silent depths of his inner self daily, and persistently. Brushing teeth, bathing, washing the clothes etc. is a part of daily routine. One cannot ignore them. The perturbed and perverse environment of the outer world pollutes the inner-consciousness. If it is not cleaned out every day, pollutants keep on accumulating and ultimately give rise to some serious problems with his style and tone.

I trust that this helps clarify the supernormal musician you referred to.

[Bill Hankey]

tbhenry,

I appreciate your knowledgeable concerns relating to the wide-ranging players from all levels of playing abilities. Lately, I've been tuckered out, and trying to respond to an astute personality, such as the one you possess isn't an easy task. Your writing ability is by far among the very best on this forum. (IMO)

I've tried to call upon the informative writers to some degree. Your generous responses are are very informative. Peakedness is difficult to determine until all efforts to reach a desired pinnacle have been achieved. Efforts to maintain a mental library of favorable melodies becomes more difficult each time new discoveries through practice are made.

[Duane Reese]

Peakedness is difficult to determine until all efforts to reach a desired pinnacle have been achieved.

Bill, I disagree with this statement. One need not reach any pinnacle of achievement, nor even put forth the effort, to determine peakedness. All you need to do is ask someone if you look pale or sick, or look in the mirror at yourself for a pale or sickly appearance (at the time you don't feel well).

[b0b]

b0b,

In response to your bid to bring closer the "reader" musician, I vividly recall Chester Atkins' reply to persistent questioning by the Springfield Symphony Orchestra's appointed directors managing guest appearances. Chet commented that they repeatedly inquired about his ability to "read". He responded by saying, "Not enough to hurt my music". There is a world of differences between "readers" and those who have a natural affinity to creative music. Inclusively, Atkins, Emmons, Day phenoms, and so many others have gone far beyond all reasonable expectancies to become creative in a musical sense. I'm not aware of any discussions about "playing by ear" in past threads on this forum. I believe that "reading" may prevent a truly fine musician from becoming effectively creative.

As usual, Bill, I couldn't disagree more with your opinion. I have never known any reader who would be a better musician if they didn't read music. Complex and/or precise melodies and harmonies are easier to convey via the written page than by any other medium. I have endured countless rehearsals that would have taken a third of the time if the leader and players were readers. Teaching parts via the "show and tell" method is exhausting.

[Bill Hankey]

b0b,

Prerequisites that would ultimately insure that my points of views are at least considered, include; interpretation as the #1 hang-up in one's ability to decipher a songwriter's intended conveyance of the "feel" in a particular musical score. The problem dates back to the days when the masters of complicated scores were difficult to decipher. According to experts, it is not possible to interpret the German composer Ludwig van Beethoven's 5th Symphony, in its entirety. You refer to the sketchiness and disadvantages, due to the lack of musical repleteness in nonreaders. I think a trip around the block in the midst of arrangers who lead better than they follow, may very well dampen that particular concept.

[Barry Blackwood]

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