Do You Use Tab Or Do You Improvise?

[Barry Hyman]

I still don't understand why somebody would want to read tab or notation so as to play something exactly the way somebody else did. What makes that worthwhile? Maybe as an exercise now and then, but on stage? For money? To copy somebody else note-for-note? Why? How does that make you a musician? The dumbest thing I've ever heard of, in fifty years of playing music, is these so-called "tribute bands." I'd rather shine shoes for a living -- for pig farmers after a mudslide -- than spend my days trying to be a professional imitator.

When you make love to your wife, do you try to do exactly what her old boyfriend did? Do you follow the sex manual word-for-word?

I know this is confrontational, but The Forum has been boring me lately so I want to see a little action. And I'm not just trying to make trouble -- this really bothers me. I am shocked and horrified everytime I see some post where somebody wants to add a certain pull so they can play the intro to such-and-such. Don't you have an idea in your head? Can't you play something original? Why do you care what so-and-so did on such-and-such? There is nothing wrong with having respect for great players, but they didn't get to be great by being copycats, did they? They got great by creating their own solos!

Listen to the chord changes, learn some music theory so you know what key the song is in and when it changes key or includes blue notes. And then make up your own solo. If you are not playing creatively, you are not a real musician, in my opinion. (And yes, that includes most "classical" musicians. Supremely well-trained human jukeboxes, but not real musicians. Not unless they can improvise when they want to.) What do you think?

[b0b]

I think it's better to put some thought into creating a good solo for every song on your list, and perfecting it. Whether you need to write it down or not to remember it is a personal choice.

I'm not good at improvising all the time, but the audience always expects me to be good. Bad improvisation can be really boring to the listener. That's why I'd rather have a good part worked out than rely on my improvisational skills all the time.

It's good to be able to read the melody because the best solos include fragments of the melody. Some people have good enough ears that they don't have to read, but most people who disrespect reading music are just too lazy to learn. That's my opinion.

[Cal Sharp]

If you're doing an artist gig you need to play whatever Paul or Buddy or Sonny or whomsoever did on the session as close as you can. If it's just a bar band cover situation it's good to cop the style of whoever played the session (Mooney, Buddy, etc) but you don't have to do it note for note, unless the band leader wants it that way.

[Danny Bates]

I agree with all of the above.

To a certain extent I think you have to "own it" and do the best to benefit the song. Without grandstanding, downright tear it up!

[Kyle Everson]

I don't mean to sound harsh, but these comments strike me as being a bit ignorant, which is ok. Like Cal said, if you have an artist gig, it's your JOB to do it like the record, so there's your first reason to play it that way. Most artists are willing to let you branch out a little, though. There is a ton to be learned by figuring out exactly how a player played a piece. The beauty is that after you figure it out just the way it was played, you can apply your newfound knowledge and create your own sound. You're that much smarter musically. Good luck with your quest.

[Bob Hoffnar]

Depends on the gig. I mostly improvise. But really nailing a Mooney or Noel Boggs solo on the bandstand can be fun. And working on them is an enjoyable education.

[Chuck Thompson]

I have never understood the either/or mindset that creates limitations like the poll. Why not all of the above? Barry, on your website you mention the importance of learning theory and technique. Why would you fence your students in with ideas like that? Arent you stifling their creativity with the rules that those things bring? Do you do silly things like tune your instrument or keep that horrible chain called a fretboard on your steel? Sure we all have some sort of fences we build for ourselves and if we dont the audience will set them up for us by rejecting what they think is crap. And yes many if not most of the greats spent time copying their heros. Reading, Theory, Ear training, Improv, Technique, emulating and or quoting the masters etc all has value in learning, and performing and increases your stock value when looking for a job. Casting out any part seems limiting to me. I guess i could have saved timed and just said I agree with those who answered before me

[Ryan Barwin]

What Chuck said.

[Clete Ritta]

I still don't understand why somebody would want to read tab or notation so as to play something exactly the way somebody else did. ...

Barry,

I get your gripe, but seriously, there are styles of music that dont rely on improvisation and are meant to be played as the composer intended.

I play by ear on many different instruments, but that doesnt stop me from learning a Bach piece note for note, as J.S. intended it to be played, by struggling through the sheet music.
In the end it is still completely worthwhile to learn music the "old" way, by reading. Now I have just learned a new piece of music, and can use the techniques and motifs in my improvisation as well. Nothing wrong with that.
There are only 12 original notes in western music and many musical ideas have been borrowed from somewhere else. Whether you borrowed it by ear or by reading is of little consequence.

In jazz music, an idiom in which improvisation is encouraged, many of the tunes begin and end with a head which usually was written and intended to be played by the group as it was written, then the fun begins.

The list goes on, but I feel a poll on Tab or Improvise is missing the point.
If one can only read music, theres a tendency to sound stiff or mechanical, and not feel it. On the other hand, if all you can do is improvise by ear, you may be missing some more complicated musical challenges that can learned by reading. Best to utilize both, and that's not an option in your poll.


Clete

[Dave Boothroyd]

In the six string world, I have noticed that there are people who can play the guitar, and there are people who can play some songs on the guitar.
Asked the question, "Can you play 'xxxx'?"
Someone who can play guitar will say,
"I can if I've heard it."
Someone who has learned a few songs will say, "No, but I'll see if I can find the TAB online."
One of my former students has a great comment on his Myspace page.
Where it invites you to describe who you sound like, he has written,
"Whoever I want to sound like, OK?"
He can play the guitar.
Cheers
Dave

[Franklin]

As for tab......I tell students to use whatever it takes to increase their memorization skills.

Music is communication......The Hankey style of writing is "generally" what happens when players don't study how the masters improvise. Going it alone, by choosing not to study the works of other great players, generally leads to a lot of musical meanderings. Is there ever a point where an author should stop studying the writing skills of other literary masters?

..... Paul

[Ford Cole]

Paul...Thanks for the wisdom and insight. As usual, you seem to gently, but effectively cut through the various details of our questions and concerns to lead us to a point of logical conclusion. And I along with many others highly respect your viewpoint.

[Graeme Jaye]

Surely one follows the other?

When I first learned to play guitar, I did so by copying the popular tunes and players of the day (let's not say what day, suffice to say the Shadows and Chuck Berry were high on the list). It was only after getting a 'feel' for the ways others played the instrument that I felt equipped to branch out and improvise in my own way.

I'm a new psg player. Quite honestly, I'll take anything I can get from wherever and whomsoever. I'm quite willing to slavishly copy. or learn from tabs or notation, until I feel competent enough to experiment for myself.

[CrowBear Schmitt]

i use both :
- tabs (which gets me on track quick)
- ear ( when i have to figure things out having nothing else to go by - time consuming but rewarding nevertheless)
when using tabs or ear, it's essential to break it down in order to understand/know, what is written & not just play it & fly by the seat on your pants
i do improvise & not be just a copy kat
Thanx for your insight Paul

[Cal Sharp]

Paul said:

The Hankey style of writing is "generally" what happens when players don't study how the masters improvise. Going it alone, by choosing not to study the works of other great players, generally leads to a lot of musical meanderings.

Most actual writers study the works of Poe, Twain, Steinbeck etc. in the course of developing their literary skills. Charlie Parker spent a lot time with Lester Young records, learning his solos note for note, and then went from there.

[Lee Baucum]

For me, reading tab is very tedious; however, I have had lots of "aha!" moments after carefully studying tabs. Tabs can quickly show you how a phrase was played, without wasting a lot of time trying to figure out how the heck the player did it.

I also find that trying to memorize a tabbed out song is hard, tedious work. I'll use tab to learn the "essence" of a song and then use my own interpretation and phrasing.

[Ronnie Boettcher]

Barry, I fully agree with you. Why try to copy another artists composition. Every one of us, is a individual, and playing your own style, makes the song flow. You don't see Buddy, playing like Lloyd, or vise versa. As long as your audience can hear the song, and relate to it, That is entertainment. Just like the singers. If they sing a song of Jones, or Haggard, your not expecting them to sound like them. Be yourself, and entertain the public.

[chris ivey]

i was under the impression that as 13 year olds paul f. and tommy w. were pretty much copying buddy e.
that is partly why they are two of the best today.
i have difficulty copying more than two notes in a row due to my power of concentration and focus...so i pretty much always lapse into playing whatever lame note or lick i can think of at any given time...creating my noticably hankeyesque style of musical communication.

[Larry Bressington]

I use a riffo-matic and ear to cop chops, as close as possible.
Where would i buy tab for every song my club gig is calling for?? 100 songs??

Many 'classical' players can't get by without the sheet music in front of them, they don't read whilst they are playing, it has to be there for security and comfort.

I don't change co-ped for lick/songs, if i don't have it, i manage!

I HAVE TO KEEP MY EAR IN THE GAME!

[Glenn Suchan]

I like to improvise, but many times, I like to get a specific passage as close to the original as possible. In these cases, I will study by listening closely to a recording and try to get as close to the original as I can. I don't rule out TABs, but I find I understand the original passage better by listening and trying to figure out why it works, rather than memorizing tab. In the past I've memorized tab to play parts. However, there've been times when I've forgotten the TAB and was completely lost. The reason being, I memorized TAB and neglected to understand why the TAB worked. Also, I find my method of study helps me improvise on passages I've never played before.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

[Earnest Bovine]

Here is last year's thread on the same subject:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=149352
so at the risk of going off topic, I ask, apropos of the definition of improvisation therein:
Who among steel players is truly an improviser?

[Danny Bates]

Chris said:

my noticably hankeyesque style of musical communication

Yep, at gigs a lot of drunks come up and tell you.... "Dude, you're so Hankeyesque"

Well you know what they say...

"If you can't dazzle them with intelligence, baffle them with B*ll Sh*t"

[Barry Hyman]

You guys are all correct. The reason I go off on this rant periodically is that I teach lessons for a living, mostly 6-string guitar, and I meet a lot of young self-taught players who have learned from tab exclusively and it is doing them real harm. They don't know what they are playing, they don't know what key they are in (they don't know what a key is!), they don't know what the chords are, they don't know what anybody else in a band should be playing to the songs they have "learned," they usually can't play a complete song, they don't know how to follow changes or improvise to something new, and they are incompetent and useless as musicians because of it.

Obviously experienced players can and do learn any way they can, but to learn tab (or notation) before learning theory is destructive, in my opinion.

And, as for studying the great masters, of course every serious artist/writer/musician does that. I study. I listen. But when I play in public, what you hear is my synthesis of all that. I have studied a lot of great music. But I have never tried to imitate anybody, and I never will. Improvisation is risky, as bOb says. But that's the thrill and the challenge of it for me. That's what gets me firing on all eight cylinders. The impossible goal that I strive for every day is to improvise something that sounds composed. Impossible, but it sure is stimulating and fun to try!

[Cal Sharp]

I think I get your drift, Barry, and I agree with you. I always thought tab was a poor substitute for theory and actual written music. OTOH I've known fairly accomplished musicians who couldn't play anything unless they had the sheet music in front of them. In fact, I was in that situation for a while. I started classical piano lessons in the 2nd grade and I learned to read great, but there was no ear training or improvisation in the curriculum and I couldn't play along with a song on the radio.

I heard a good story about Buddy: he was on some session and the producer had him make several passes at the turnaround or whatever his part was, so he did, and every one was completely different, perfect and great.

[Danny Bates]

Barry said:

The reason I go off on this rant periodically is that I teach lessons for a living

Barry,

I understand. Teaching music has got to be one of the hardest jobs in the world. When I hear the sounds inside a Guitar Center I start twitching like a bug that just got sprayed with DDT.