Introducing Ceramic Tone Bars

[Calvin Walley]

since the steel guitar gets its name from the steel bar we use,
if you use one of these bars does that mean you play a Ceramic guitar ?

[Bud Harger]

Jay,

You have a PayPal payment for my new Cobalt Blue Tone Bar!

Thanks,

bUd

[Jay Seibert]

Thanks for your order, Bud! It gives me great pleasure knowing that members of the Forum are buying, playing, and enjoying their new-found world of "ceramic guitar" In all my dreams, I never thought the bars would be received so well!

[Jeff Hyman]

Jay,

Have you had any feedback as to the comparison between your new bar and the Zirconi bars? The Zirc bars are rather expensive... but do offer some great features. The weight issue is one, and you have that covered. How about sweat on outdoor humid gigs. Does moisture make your bar slippery, or static to your hand?

[Jay Seibert]

I have yet to hear any statements or complaints regarding slipping and static. I have been playing these a lot (Well... that would figure, wouldn't it?) and have yet to encounter a slippery problem... but southern Washington is not known for humidity... just lotsa rain. My bars have a very nice tactile feel to them which is a result of the glaze formula I have created. Perhaps some of those players who bought bars I shipped down South might have a comment. As far as static, I have never known glazed ceramics to generate static. Of course, I hate to admit that I don't know everything.

[Lee Baucum]

I think, in this case, Jeff is not talking about electrical static. Does moisture cause the bar to slip or does it help make the bar stick to your hand?

[Jeff Hyman]

I think, in this case, Jeff is not talking about electrical static....

Jay... Lee is correct. Sorry if my question was confusing.
Does moisture cause the bar to slip or does it help make the bar stick to your hand?

[Jay Seibert]

Got it now! To me, there doesn't seem to be a sensation of sticking or being held static in the hand.
Ceramic glazes are a very mystifying, yet wonderful world of textures fired on the surface of the clay body. One can achieve an infinite variety of smooth, bumps, and valleys. It was quite a challenge (Read that, lots of failed prototypes.)to get the surfaces I have on the bars and slides to be where they are.
With high fire, everything is more difficult to predict and ultimately control. Once you get it to where you want it, it's "fairly" easy to duplicate. But, there is always is a "loss factor" as easily 10% of what I make ends up with a flaw and is discarded.
By comparison, low fire ceramics and glazes will absorb more moisture as the surface is more porous... it's the porosity which would lend to sticking and slipping if it becomes saturated with enough moisture.

And the comment on Zirconia bars... I would be happy to send a few bars out to a few of you who have a Zirconia bar... that way you can test it and do us all a favor, I'd like to get the review of the comparison!

So who are the first three gonna be?

[Larry Robbins]

I use one of Jays' grooved bars for my dobro playing. The top is not glazed and it seems to help me in controlling it.
Love these bars!

[Jeff Hyman]

I would like the opportunity to do a comparison.
I will give a fair and unbiased (personal) opinion,
and try to give pros and cons on both sides.

I have one of the original Zirc bars, #79 with my name
engraved. I mention this as if there are any changes in the
production method from back when zirc's first came out,
versus today's methods, should be noted by any one of the
manufacturers of the Zirc.

I will email you my home address. I will pay for return postage.

[Jay Seibert]

OK Jeff!
You are the first reply and I appreciate the postage offer. I'll look for your address info. You'll need to give me the size/dimensions of the bar you are using now so I can hopefully match it. This will be fun! Of course the bar I send you is free!

So now there are two review opportunities left...

[Jeff Hyman]

Jay,

3 3/8 x 7/8

I appreciate the free offer, but even with good intentions, there will be those that may see that as a conflict of interest. If its OK with you, I'll sell it here on the forum, and all the funds will go right to b0b as a donation. If I end up wanting to keep it, I'll send b0b $20.00. Either way the forum wins

FYI: I have enough bars to load a Civil War Gatling gun. My main interest is to know the difference first hand (literally). I think there are many, like myself, that appreciate new products, as well as how they differ from another product. My objective is to satisfy my own curiosity, and at the same time share the feedback. That's about it.

The opportunity is much appreciated!

[Jay Seibert]

Jeff,

I think that's a great idea! Of course I may think differently if you hate the bar... just kidding
Really, the bars and slides have gotten this far simply and only because there are folks who like playing with them. They don't please everyone, but then, nothing does.
I'm sure we'll all look forward to your "ear".

[Jeff Hyman]

Jay,

My hat is off to anyone that brings a new or improved product to the small and dwindling world of PSG. My opinion are like ears... everyone has one (or two). There is a small number of those using the Zirc bar, due to the limited quantity produced, as well as the cost. I've been using the Zirc for years. I am very curious to see, feel, and hear the difference.

[Jay Seibert]

Jeff,

You need to send me your address and data on the bar you are using so I can send you a Paloma bar to a/b test. I am really curious...

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

I also have and use a zirc bar. I actually have 2 of them, serial numbers 30 and 31. I also have a BJS, a Pearse "frozen" bar. a Red Rajah a Dunlop, and several others, but the zirc is the one I use. I would also like to compare the zirc bar with this one.

As per Calvin's comment, I guess I play the "pedal Zirconium Dioxide guitar."

[Jay Seibert]

Hi Mike,

Send me your address and I'll send you a bar to test... with such a variety of bars you own, it will be very cool to see how the Paloma bars stack up.

[A. J. Martinez]

If you buy one you will not regret it. super good bar!

[Chuck Christensen]

Jay, Received my bar thanks.I have an assortment of different bars,like others do and yours does give a unique sound that I like. Chuck

[Fred Rogan]

I got 2 of Jay's bars and am surprised at how anything so light can still deliver the tone. Just going from my old Ernie Ball steel to one of Jays bars, it is hard to tell a whole lot of difference, and that is a compliment. The big advantage to me is the lightness of these bars seems to really help in left hand movement. There also seems to be a reduction of string noise.
The cobalt blue that I ordered makes for a really cool looking bar and the sound and weight make it a bar that every player ought to have.

[Robert C. McKee]

I ordered a 7/8 x 3 3/8 bar from Jay around 6-8 wks ago. The order was to have been shipped in 2 wks. As we all know, problems had arisen for Jay, which he has since healed nicely. I had written him twice after the initial order to merely 'check in'. His response on both occasions was within an appr 8hr period. (good PR) He notified me the day my bar was shipped. The package was waiting for me when I arrived home from a wk long bluegrass festival, (another story, lol). Imagine my surpise when I opened the package and not 1, but 4>>>FOUR bars. One 7/8 cobalt blue....one 15/16 cobalt blue...one 15/16 white...and one just a tad over 1in cobalt blue...all with protective bags. My reaction was to contact Jay quickly. I only paid for 1 bar, and didn't wish the payment police knocking on my door. Imagine my utter SHOCK at his response....Since I had waited so patiently for my bar...just keep the other 3. His way of saying thank you to me for my patience. Imagine that! Well...prior to his response, I did sneak in and try all 4 bars out for a few minutes...so I guess at that point they would've been used anyway, right? lol. I have only used them just a few minutes, so I haven't any true analogies, but I was impressed with those few moments. I use BJS bars, & immediately was impressed with the weight factor of Jay's bars. I was too mezmerized and too tight for time to really do any comparisons. Yes, I DO like the bars, and I WILL be ordering a few for my dobro in the near future. I like the product so far...and I would absolutely recommend doing business with this fine gentleman. Kinda reminds me of doing business the 'old way'. Thank you Jay. Someday I'll meet you in person and I will want to shake your hand. Bob

[Jay Seibert]

Bob,

Thanks so much for those very kind words... I'll look forward to meeting you and shaking your hand as well!

Slide on!

Jay

[Joel Meredith]

I had Jay make me a custom bar 1.23 inches in diameter and 3.6 inches in length...kind of a "copy" of my Sneaky Pete steel tonebar.

Not only was he super responsive, but he gave me a very, very fair price.
After a few weeks, a box came with four different tonebars, all the same size! That's cool, man.

I love the feel and the tone of the bars,and they all have subtle differences in the way they sound...but they're all great!

I've let a couple friends in town that play steel borrow them and they're blown away, too.

Thanks, Jay!

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

The bar arrived yesterday, but I was out all day and didn't get home till after my wife was asleep, so I did not turn on the amp, which would have woken her up, and played for a while unplugged, just to get a sense of how the bar feels. I still have not heard what it sounds like when played through an amp. I'll do that later today.

If I may make an analogy, if somebody has been driving a full size Hummer, and goes from that to one of those tiny Smart cars, chances are (s)he will think the Smart car will feel flimsy and unsubstantial by comparison. On the other hand, somebody who is used to driving the Smart car would find the Hummer to be clunky and awkward. It's all a matter of what you're used to.

I'm used to a substantially heavier bar. The Zirc bar weighs 8.8 oz. The ceramic weighs 3.9. Less than half as much. And I have used the Zirc bar since they were first introduced in 1997 or'98. So my initial response was like that of the guy who is used to the Hummer and is driving the Smart car for the first time. My immediate first reaction was that the bar was too light, and not very substantial.

But then as I played with it more, I realized that the light weight makes it a lot faster. Just as the Smart car has a smaller turning radius than the Hummer, and is far easier to manipulate, so too, the ceramic bar is easier to manipulate than the Zirc bar.

I will have to play more with the bar and see just how much faster and easier to move it is in comparison with the Zirc bar. I need to see if I can get used to the way it feels, and whether I prefer the increased maneuverability it provides over the familiar feeling of substance of the heavier bar.

I still have not turned the amp on, and so I still don't know if there is any difference in the tone the 2 bars produce.

to be continued..........

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

For this test I disconnected the volume pedal and went directly from the steel to the amp. The amp in question is a Crate Power Block with an Alesis Midiverb plugged into the effects loop, going into a Peavey 12" Black Widow speaker in an open back cabinet.

I was unable to notice any difference in tone between the two bars. I did notice that the Zirc bar produced a very slightly louder tone than the ceramic bar, and had a tiny bit more sustain. In terms of practical playing, these differences are so minute as to be insignificant. I'm pretty sure that if I were blindfolded and heard somebody else test the 2 bars, I would not be able to tell which was which. I will however bring both bars to another players house or gig, and ask him to play something with them both and see if I can tell.

I think the big factor is the weight. The question is whether one prefers a heavy bar with some meat on it (if you can call it that) or a lighter bar that is easier to manipulate, but doesn't have the solid feel of a heavier bar.

Personally, I'm still trying to decide.