Do you play in a rock band or jam band?

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 7 Apr 2010 10:58 am

I've been wondering how many PSG players play in rock bands and jam bands. If so, how much do you change your playing from when you play in a country band?

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 7 Apr 2010 11:18 am

Hey Pete,how have you been? I play in a couple of Rock/Jam type bands with some younger players from time to time and I have to play much louder and usually with a distortion device [Blues Driver]sometimes a Korg G4 Leslie simulator,and A heaver touch,It's more like a sport getting the uniform dirty... yet it's big fun.
Stu

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 7 Apr 2010 12:03 pm

Hi Pete,
To answer your question... Basically I just don't bring the Mu-Tron III or Mu-Tron Octave Divider to any country gigs!... and of course the format is different with regard to the long jams that don't exist as much in Country music.
Country music has a few less chords than say "Doin' That Rag", so you need to know the song a bit more than just the number system, imho.
Pride of Cucamonga fits the Intro/Fill/Ride/Ending format, but again, way more chords.
Dire Wolf kinda fits the country structure, but again, each verse is different, so you can't really "sit in" on some Jam Band songs without really knowing the chords and being able to play them fluently.
If it's just a throw together jam then it gets back into the easy stuff like Franklins Tower, but I've seen an easy one like Bertha get some guys cuz they didn't know the Bridge.

Also, If it weren't for my interest in Jam Band music I would never had learned my Scales and Modes.

Hey can you tell us about your playing Steel with Jerry and The Grateful Dead?
Are you doing any Jam Band playing these days?
Thx,
Pete B.

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 7 Apr 2010 2:14 pm

I just played a few songs at the Great American Music Hall with a great new band, The Contribution (www.thecontribution.net), with Tim Carbone of Railroad Earth; Jeff Miller and Phil Ferlino of New Monsoon; and Keith Moseley and Jason Hann of The String Cheese Incident. It’s a kick-ass band with great vocals, that alone putting them head and shoulders over many other jam bands. One thing I love doing with Tim Carbone is trading eights, fours, twos, ones, and choose-your-own-number-of-bars-each-time.

Over the last few years, I’ve sat in with Railroad Earth, Leftover Salmon, Mind-X, Izabella, Five-Eyed Hand, and Moonalice. Although Moonalice has an excellent steel player in Barry Sless, he also plays guitar, so I was able to sit in on a few songs, including “Stella Blue,” which was fairly cosmic. Moonalice is one fine band. I can post here when the show is up on the web.

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 7 Apr 2010 2:19 pm

Hi Stu,

Both you and Pete mentioned using sound sculpting devices. I’ve been trying to not use them just to see what I can accomplish with just the tone of the steel. I’ll probably go back to some distortion device (other than turning my amp up to 11), but it’s been fun and quite a challenge to work with fewer tools. Last weekend the two guitarists (Tim plays fiddle and guitar) had “train sets” on the floor and could use them quite well. I’ve had fun with things like that, but I think I have to have my chops up more to have the left-over attention to deal with a gazillion other possible tone shapes.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 7 Apr 2010 2:49 pm

Pete,great to have you here,It looks like you're having fun,What guitar is that in the pic?Be well bud,Stu

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 7 Apr 2010 3:54 pm

Hi Stu,

Great to be here. That’s my S-12 Dekley Thinline. In the case, it’s just under the 70 pound weight limit for international baggage. I got tired of dragging around D-12 rigs with either no or rusty strings on the back neck. I just ordered a S-12 Millennium, the one with the carbon fiber body. That’ll be even lighter.

Gary Cosden · Post by **Gary Cosden** » 7 Apr 2010 4:53 pm

I love doing outside the box type stuff. I recently did some shows with an experimental rock band/recording project called Exploding Pages here in Fort Myers for their CD release. They originally just wanted me to cover the slide guitar parts from the album on PSG which I thought to be a bit of a stretch but it turned into a lot more and I had a blast doing it. No one expects you to know the intro to so and so's latest or anything like what you might encounter in a traditional or even contemporary country band and you get to stretch out and experiment a bit. In a way I think you don't really change anything since the same simple rules apply - if it works you can play it and if it doesn't you do something else. You draw on your fundamental musicianship more than just your bag of tricks of licks, intros and turnarounds. I have not gotten into any effects at all other than turning my Dual Showman up to 10. Actually its been a little hard getting used to the volume. You just don't know what loud is till you have to have your 80 watt tube amp on 10 pointed right at your head just to hear it at all and depend on it being miked for the main mix and still need good monitor mix to be able to pick your steel out of the mix at all while playing. At the end of the day I would say that it can be more challenging and possibly more rewarding than country given the right circumstances with the right people. Having said that it feels really good to be doing stuff with a singer songwriter with a "quiet" drummer who does not drive the volume of the band! Its all good I guess.

Chris Buchanan · Post by **Chris Buchanan** » 7 Apr 2010 7:57 pm

I play in a pop/rock band. A lot of loud guitars and keyboards. It's a wonder nobody steps on anyone. The hard part was finding a space to play that didn't double or clash. That's the advantage of original music-if it fits you can play it. I think they wanted pedal steel to be out there a little more, but we were all surprised at how well it works. I play chords and do a lot of solos with just enough bends to remind you it's a steel.
I'm also playing in a group that does bossa nova influenced pop tunes, also original. The writer likes to put different instruments together. Trumpet is the main solo instrument, but I jump on it if I think something is steel friendly. Mostly I'm in the background.
I don't play in any country bands, but there are a lot of musicians playing contemporary rock music who appreciate the sounds of a steel, and try hard to incorporate it. It's a good fit, and I try hard to be a good soloist and not rely on any particular style. The steel can be made to sound good anywhere, it's so versatile. Everything's in it.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 7 Apr 2010 8:16 pm

Hey Pete,

A majority of the playing I do is with rock/jam bands. I don't use a lot of effects, but a few things that I find indispensible in terms of gear are:

-turn off the reverb
-play through a tube amp that can be overdriven 'organically'
-leave the bosstone at home
-multiple pickups in roughly the same position as an SG/Les Paul are *really* useful in getting natural tones that work in various settings
-If you don't have multiple pickups, a wah pedal can be useful for taming the twang

In terms of playing, I don't see a huge difference in my approach in the various styles of music, but that's mainly because my 'non-country' playing has influence all styles. I attribute most of my 'jam band' chops to playing with the Campbell Brothers and other Sacred Steel players (including Robert Randolph). That style works amazing well in the jam style.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 7 Apr 2010 9:45 pm

First off, that's a great photo, Pete G.!

While I totally love playing the pure western and country material of Joni Harms and other "country" artists that I work with, I get out to some top-notch jazz jams as well, I played most of the night last Sunday with Tom Grant & Co. in fact. Jazz standards like "The Girl from Ipanema" or "Joyspring" will keep your head swimming for certain on an E9 S10 with 3+2! I certainly never have to buy my own drinks when I make it happen, though...

I also play more-or-less regularly at several blues jams and Foothill Diesel, the "real" band that I have been playing with off and on since the mid-1970's, plays plenty of rock tunes (Tom Petty, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Little Feat, etc.) mixed in with some blues, swing and classic country. The Ron Rogers project we are currently booking has a pretty swampy/bluesy sounding mix as well, if we do a steel instrumental it will be "Time is Tight" by Booker T. or War's classic "Low Rider" but NEVER "Steel Guitar Rag" ("Last Date" and "Bud's Bounce" are both on the playlist, though).

In any case, I use the same gear for everything, unless it's a high-profile event the Emmons D10 sits at home to practice on and the little S10 Pro I goes out to play, VP plugged into the Steel Man with no external toys at all. The difference is in how I use the guitar, for rock and blues I throw in lots of dominant 7 and 7+9 chords, also a few Elmore James licks, some percussive piano, sustained organ and imitation horn section parts, when appropriate I open up the VP a bit more to get some growl out of the rig, which is pretty much wide open anyway to keep up with drums and bass.

For the jazz stuff it is all about sensitivity, subtlety, attack and purety of tone, it's definitely harder to pull off because of the much more complex chords and progressions but infinitely more rewarding when it works. One great thing about jazz is that a note that might be "wrong" in another genre is perfectly acceptable if you know where to go next....

Duane Dunard · Post by **Duane Dunard** » 8 Apr 2010 3:50 am

I'm very lucky to have so many talented friends that allow me to work with them. Most of my gigs are traditional country, but now and then I'm invited to work with young guys that play modern country/classic rock, and I love it. They are very respectful toward me, and seem to really appreciate the sounds of the steel guitar. The steel gives their group an edge over compeditor bands and I love the freedom to be creative. D.D.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 8 Apr 2010 6:59 am

Thanks for pointing out that link to The Contribution, Pete. I don't like the band's name very much, but they are a very good band. Is that you playing pedal steel on the record?

Why didn't you tell me you were going to be in town? I would have tried to come see you!

I am thinking about playing pedal steel more, but I need to find a band.

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 8 Apr 2010 7:48 am

Hi Brad,

The original idea was for me to play on one or two tunes. I ended up playing half the show and sitting in on a tune with Kate Gaffney. Should have called, though. That's Barry Sless on PSG on the record. Yeah, and about the name, I think it's because "The Commitments" was taken.

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 8 Apr 2010 7:53 am

I'm really enjoying the posts and digesting all the approaches. I like Dan's approach of taking an amp that distorts "organically." I may take my Mesa Boogie to use in tandem with my Webb. That's just like carrying around a D-12 and then some. And, yes, most of us on PSG have just the "back pickups"... Interesting.

Dave Harmonson · Post by **Dave Harmonson** » 8 Apr 2010 9:26 am

I've been playing some gigs lately with a blues/rock band and I agree with you Pete about trying to be bluesy without using distortion. I have a Rat pedal that I'll use occasionally, but I'm trying to think of ways to not use it. James Burton could rock out just fine with a clean tone, so it should be possible on steel with a clean tone as well. Trying to use more brain and less effects.
Dan, I still can't go without my reverb. Maybe there's a 12 step program to get off of it.
Looking forward to pickin' with you again tomorrow at The Hen.
Dave

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 8 Apr 2010 9:27 am

I recorded on Jon Fishman's (of Phish) record called Pork Tornado. Ironically both tunes were the only ones countryish in a sea of different stiles from Bach to Zappa.
I play with a couple of roots bands locally and we'll do some rockin numbers with extended solos. I use my Quadraverb GT to get some different sounds. I think it's good to mix it up with effects now and then especially if you are playing a four hour gig. People's ears get tired.
Most jam bands i've heard jam over a repetitious 2 chord change which bores the @#% out of me.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 8 Apr 2010 10:17 am

Hey, Pete, how are you? Great thread!
I feel very fortunate to have and continue to play with many different kinds of bands in various genres.
I don't change my playing a whole lot from band to band, but draw on past experience for what seems appropriate in each context, while taking some chances here and there.
It's all music, and steel brings a whole lot to a whole lot of it.
When I started playing my second band was a mostly-original rock/country outfit, very good songs and no roadmap for steel, I had to find my own way. I think that had a whole lot to do with forming my approach and attitudes.
I'm still very gratified with how many people love hearing steel in various forms of music, and appreciate what I'm doing.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 8 Apr 2010 10:31 am

I play in a rock band.

Very interesting thread. Given the stature of the people posting in it, I dont feel qualified to add any insight into the matter but am loving hearing the responses.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 8 Apr 2010 10:50 am

On this one, are 2 songs from the beginning of the set and I'm mostly playing on top with single notes and harmonics until the 12/8 section near the end of the 2nd song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF4jwCzM ... re=related

On this one I open with a power chord and harmonics solo. Over at the bar, Kobe sinks a 3, the Lakers win one and the crowd cheers. During the solo I'm playing the guitar with a piece of glass to get the noise effect. The rest of the time I'm doing power chords, scraping and picking behind the bar or rolling the bar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFqG8rTX6ek

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 8 Apr 2010 12:06 pm

Chas that second one was killer.

Chuck Thompson · Post by **Chuck Thompson** » 8 Apr 2010 12:33 pm

hi Pete - i am fortunate to play in a classic country band and also with an alt rock alt country band that does anything from the burritos to the replacements and an alt/country country/rock singer/songwriter who does mostly original stuff but the covers range from cash and hank to springsteen dead and phish. I saw your post when you first put it up but wasnt quite sure how to answer. Maybe i still dont. My playing style definately changes. Im not sure how much is on purpose and how much is driven by the context. I use alot less reverb and maybe use a dirt box a little more often (a tube amp when my back can stand hauling it). Definately alot less melody driven things and more of a standard guitar approach at times and maybe a slide ala allman thing at times. Simple chords. not many 13ths - half diminished or 7b9's etc.. I have more fun playing the guitar part to chris isaak's "wicked game" on steel than switching to guitar. CHAS! that is great stuff! thanks for sharing that!

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 8 Apr 2010 5:36 pm

Hi Pete,

It's been a while (Pete gave me my very first pedal steel lesson)

.

Here's an example of what I was talking about, showing using a tube amp slightly overdriven, with two pickups widely spaced in phase to give a 'fat strat' sound, and using the sparse Sacred Steel type approach:

Kind of a jam band kinda thing at a steel convention

I think I used a little delay on this, plus I might have used a Zen Drive with a very low overdrive setting to juice the amp (it's a Fender Princeton Reverb with reverb turned off).

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 8 Apr 2010 7:55 pm

Chas,

I love your playing on those cuts.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 8 Apr 2010 8:16 pm

Nice job Chas, you played some notes I never would have thought of and they sound great.