3rd String breakage - HELP!

Leo Melanson · Post by **Leo Melanson** » 11 Mar 2010 10:00 pm

Newbie help alert. Have broken a whole pack of new extra 3rd strings trying to put on my carpsteel.

A few broke at the nut, some the peg, now one at the ball end. What am I doing wrong. I had it working for a minute .. pedal travel was normal .. than whammo!

Checked the nut and peg .. no burrs.
Lightly Oiled the nut.
Tried the string wind on the Mullen site.

What am I doing wrong? Help!

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 11 Mar 2010 10:15 pm

Must likely a bad batch of strings.

Try the Jagwires from b0b here on the forum.

John Cadeau · Post by **John Cadeau** » 11 Mar 2010 10:52 pm

Try the Jagwire Tommy White E9th. I've been using them on my Emmons, and have not broken a string in almost 2 years.
John

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 12 Mar 2010 1:59 am

Holy Moly..

first off, yes, it can be a bad batch of stings, but I doubt it, many many people do NOT use the brand above ( it's a fine brand by the way ) and do not break any 3rds, me being one. So back to the problem.. generally bad strings don't break right away, the ball end is weak and it breaks after a few hours of playing, a few days, not while installing it.

Being a realist, one new string, maybe two can break..but the whole pack ? Come-on fellow players lets be real...

First , what size is it ? .011 ? ( or thereabouts )

If a string breaks at the keypost, it's a bad bend, it was not held tight once the bend was made and the wrapping began, the bend moved. Probably the #1 reason beginner players break strings, it was not installed at the post correctly. Be sure to have at least 5 wraps as well. This is also the #1 reason bending Telecaster players go out of tune, they ado not have enough wraps on the post and the bend is moving. Be sure to pull the string tight once you put it through the post and start the wraps, the bend cannot move. If the string is breaking a the post, it's actually breaking at the mechanical bend that moved off the post a fraction of an inch.

If a string breaks at the nut or anywhere on the wire portion, it' may very well be over tightened. Did the string break when bringing it to pitch or when the B Pedal was depressed ? Is the guitar tuned to proper pitch ? Is the B Pedal tuned to proper pitch, be sure it is UNDER pitch when tuning a new string, Tune this string to maybe a G ( check the pull note on the B Pedal ) pull the string gently to seat the ball and the keypost bend, see if it stays in tune ( at the G )...work the pedal a few times, then tune it to G#. The B Pedal should bring it to an A, if it's beyond an A note the string will break every time. By the way, be sure the nut is clean and smooth, if it is a roller nut be sure it is actually"rolling". Roller nuts should be removed ,cleaned and lubed a couple of times each year. FRICTION. But even a non moving roller nut will not break a string at installation.

If the String breaks at the BALL END wrap, it's either a bad wrap or it has been tuned high. Jagwires have a shorter improved ball end wrap which is what gives them an edge but even the common everyday strings can live a good useful life past the initial installation.

If the string breaks on the bridge, you have a burr, use a piece of cotton , pull it gently over the bridge and see if it snags, any burr will break the string.

There are many reasons a string can break, the 3rd can be a killer if you do not get the process down first or of there is a mechanical issue on the instrument, the string is right at the edge with the B Pedal pulling it to an A. I doubt you had a full pack of bad strings, if you did you should enter them into the Guinness world book of records !

Now , just to add some more definition, a Speed Picker can break a 3rd string every week, any brand, a Ballad player can get much more life. Any player who is out on the bandstand regularly will change the 3rd string every week or every other week, I change it before every weekend gig.. It's 50 cents. I have not broke a 3rd string on a gig in years and that's the point. I do not try to get the string life award, I am more satisfied knowing it's new and I don't look back. it's 50 cents...I have used Jagwires, nice strings, but I generally use Cobra's, the replacements are whatever brand I find at St Louis, I buy maybe 5 or 6 packs of brand X .011's... George L, Pearce, Franklin, whatever, I'm only gonna have it on the guitar a week or so anyway...they are all quality strings.

Can it be an entire pack of bad strings ? Sure I suppose, anything is possible. Like many here, I have been doing this Steel Guitar thing for over 35 years and that has never happened to me. A few bad strings here and there, at the ball end... sure...generally when I was having strings break there was a "process" thing going on or a mechanical issue. In your case they are breaking at each of the stress points, that's all over the map, hard to pin point, so for me, I would review the process.

Keep an open mind...

I hope this helps

t

Ulf Edlund · Post by **Ulf Edlund** » 12 Mar 2010 3:18 am

Tony Prior wrote:Holy Moly..

If a string breaks at the keypost, it's a bad bend, it was not held tight once the bend was made and the wrapping began, the bend moved. Probably the #1 reason beginner players break strings, it was not installed at the post correctly. Be sure to have at least 5 wraps as well. This is also the #1 reason bending Telecaster players go out of tune, they ado not have enough wraps on the post and the bend is moving. Be sure to pull the string tight once you put it through the post and start the wraps, the bend cannot move. If the string is breaking a the post, it's actually breaking at the mechanical bend that moved off the post a fraction of an inch.

This was my first thought too when i read your post Leo. I don't know if it's what's causing your problems, but it's important enough to keep going on about.
I should know better myself, but i recently did this myself when i was changing strings in a hurry.
Too little tension while was winding, and when the string came up to pitch it slipped, twice, and the string was history.
Good luck with your new guitar. It's a fine one.
Keep us posted.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 12 Mar 2010 3:55 am

One thing to keep in mind, normally an .011 gauge string would be tuned to a high "E" note on a six string guitar. On a steel guitar, you are tuning it two full tones higher and then pulling it another half tone with the pedal, that places quite a demand on a new string. You might try letting the strings "settle in" overnight before playing. I normally change my strings immediately after the days practice session and don't touch it again for about 24 hours.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 12 Mar 2010 3:56 am

Duplicate post.

Bob Cox · Post by **Bob Cox** » 12 Mar 2010 4:55 am

It may be pulling a tad past the g# to A.Especially if it had a different brand or gage before.I would back off the nylon some then raise it back up to music land.

Jay Jessup · Post by **Jay Jessup** » 12 Mar 2010 4:56 am

I agree 100% with what Tony said, do that and you most likely will be fine but have just one little piece of experience to add. I once watched Russ Hicks break three third strings in a row on a brand new JCH with Jimmy Crawford right there watching, this was on stage at one of Stoney's Knoxville steel shows, finally he played a few songs without it and quit.
I overhead Bruce Zumsteg discussing it with both of them later that sometimes the slightest of imperfections in the string peg can cause this and it's hard to detect. A few years ago on a brand new Zum I had exactly the same problem, I temporarily solved it by winding on way more string than normal so that where the string left the peg was several winds onto the flat part of the peg and Bruce sent me a new tuning key and the problem went away.

Leo Melanson · Post by **Leo Melanson** » 12 Mar 2010 5:14 am

... thanks so much for your post. You have saved me hours of frustration and swearing. Upon further examination of the broken strings .. most were breaking at the post. User Error!

This time, I carefully held the string tight as it wound (towards the front of the guitar) .. at least five wraps. The bend did not move. Tuned it flat and then pedaled up and down with B pedal. Tuned up and pedaled again slowly. No breaks so far.

Ulf Edlund · Post by **Ulf Edlund** » 12 Mar 2010 6:30 am

Good news Leo!

I hope it was easy as that.
Many of us have encountered that infamous third string issue. Sometimes without realizing what's going on i guess.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 12 Mar 2010 6:43 am

Don't try to install 'em at 40 degrees F. I found out the hard way after going thru a half a pack of 0.011's.

You may want to invest in a face shield until the problem is solved...

Paul E. Brennan · Post by **Paul E. Brennan** » 12 Mar 2010 7:27 am

For the 3rd string, I wind two or three turns around the eye part of the post. Then I wind the rest of the string on the straight part of the post next to the key head wall. This prevents the sharp edges of the eye hole cutting into the string. Jeff Newman showed me this trick many years ago. Ever since I've been using a 012 gauge string as my 3rd. An 011 gauge string sounds painfully thin to me.

Bill Dobkins · Post by **Bill Dobkins** » 12 Mar 2010 10:34 am

Since I installed my new V lever I'm pulling my third to A#, I've yet to break a string. I'm using George L's with 11.5 on the third. Somthing is definately wrong with breaking this many strings.
Are they breaking or pulling out of the tuner eye.
As Paul said always wrap the string an ample amount to keep it from slipping.

Ulf Edlund · Post by **Ulf Edlund** » 12 Mar 2010 10:50 am

Ray Minich wrote:Don't try to install 'em at 40 degrees F. I found out the hard way after going thru a half a pack of 0.011's.

You may want to invest in a face shield until the problem is solved...

Good thing he only have them Celsius degrees over here!

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 12 Mar 2010 10:54 am

If your guitar is tuned higher than A 440 strings will break.

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 12 Mar 2010 11:37 am

Broke a whole pack of 0.011s at a gig and finally just played without it.

I had bought a dozen strings from SIT and had not specified "for steel guitar". Apparently the temper is different. SIT sent me some intended for pedal steel and they all worked BTW.

I eventually got a non pedal guitar 0.011 to stay. I had to be very careful to make sure the string didn't exit the post to close to the hole in the post. - wound alot of string on until the string exited close to the keyhead.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 12 Mar 2010 12:32 pm

Leo,I use Ernie Ball specially reinforced 11's they have more windings near the ball end and come in a turquoise envelope.

Jim Park · Post by **Jim Park** » 12 Mar 2010 12:45 pm

Cal hit it right on the head..... I sneak up on A440 with a tuner...this can be done pretty quickly during a song, but if you arent sure if your 6th is in tune DO NOT use it as a reference, use a tuner and you will be ok, I have broken a whole pack of Ernie Ball strings.....years ago though, and it only happened once

Jim

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 13 Mar 2010 5:01 pm

I watched a friend of mine break 6 G#'s during a set on an old Sho-Bud it was also a bad set,I keep my string sets in a zip-lock bag,they stay fresh that way.

Adair Torres · Post by **Adair Torres** » 14 Mar 2010 7:40 am

Hi Leo....see this topic.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... t=#1255984

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 15 Mar 2010 5:45 am

On a Carpsteel, I like a 11.5 gauge. Cut the string after measuring it about an inch past the end of the body on the keyhead end. The high G# requires extra length to stretch and pull up to the A note. The other strings, I usually just measure them about 2 keys past the string being replaced. I do the same thing on my Rains. Thanks for being part of the Rains family of steel pickers.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 15 Mar 2010 11:17 am

Everything Tony Prior said. I would also like to say that "changer design" has a lot to do with string breakage...I have had no string breakage in over two years of owning my Williams 600 series Steel..I do not change strings often. If the changer is designed to bend the strings less, you will have less string breakage..that's the long and short of it.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 15 Mar 2010 12:26 pm

On my old ShoBud I used 0.11s on it playing six nights a week, five hours a night and never broke a string. I'd just change it after one week's use. My 5th string B was a 0.18 and I'd leave it on for two weeks before changing and never broke one on the bandstand. In those days I was using good old Ernie Ball strings, the ones which came in the "gauge" box instead of packages. When I got my BMI some years ago I broke a couple of 11's and went to 10's and haven't had any problem with those at all. I'm now also using 17's on the fifth string and still stickin' with Ernie Ball's strings.....JH in Va.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 15 Mar 2010 1:26 pm

It is possible, but not likely, to get a bad batch of strings. Years ago a company put out a bad batch of .011s and myself and Buddy got some of them. Buddy was performing in England at the time, and was able to get .011s from a British steely. After breaking 5 strings in a row while installing them, I gave up and thankfully I too was able to aquire some good .011s. Jody.

The Steel Guitar Forum

3rd String breakage - HELP!

3rd String breakage - HELP!

3rd string breakage - help

Breakage

Breakage

so far so good

Re: string breakage

3rd string

String breakage