Civility- First And Foremost

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 7:25 am

Preserving the right to express values here on the forum may require a bit of tongue biting. Discussions that teach values are very desirable, and I think help to encourage articles of interest from skillful players.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 5 Feb 2010 8:00 am

Bill, I think maybe you should have put this one in Forum Feedback

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 8:23 am

Bent,

I'm really quite interested in discussing the use of diminished chords. Willy Nelson (I believe) liked to slip in a few diminished chords in his songs as a songwriter. Chords can be described for their characteristic tones. The diminished chords sound a bit gruff and threatening, as compared to minor chords, as they (Dim.) demand resolution. Moving away from country music and choosing pop as some have done, (Eddy Arnold, Ray Price, and others) will necessitate working frequently with the diminished chords. A good song to sharpen the usages of the "gruff" chord, would be Connie Francis' "Who's Sorry Now?".

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 5 Feb 2010 8:40 am

Bill, you're a hard man to follow. In your first post in this thread you spoke of civility etc etc, which I replied to suggesting it was in the wrong department. Then you switch in mid stream. Look now what has happened...People will read the "Civilty" headline and won't have a clue that this is about dim chords so they will skip it. We can't read minds.

I suggest you either start a new thread about dim chords or let this one run its course under the original heading.
You are just adding to the confusion.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 9:17 am

Bent,

Actually, this thread is about exercising civility, and abstaining from expanding on irrelevancies. For the first time, I see a real need to dismiss entries that do not conform to the norm. Anything, and everything about steel players, and their steel guitars is the goal, with the help of responders who are constantly learning new material.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 5 Feb 2010 9:29 am

Bill Hankey wrote:Bent,

Actually, this thread is about exercising civilty, and abstaining from expanding on irrelevancies.

Bill, are you saying you threw in that post about diminished chords as "bait" to see if others would follow that diversion from the stated thread topic?

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 5 Feb 2010 9:47 am

civility - definition of civility by the Free Online Dictionary ...
ci·vil·i·ty (s -v l -t ). n. pl. ci·vil·i·ties. 1. Courteous behavior; politeness. 2. A courteous act or utterance. civility [sɪˈvɪlɪtɪ]. n pl -ties ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/civility - Cached - Similar

Civility/Preserving the right to express values and Diminished/Augmented Chords. I do see the connection. With all respect and civility...

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 10:12 am

Dick,

Thanks, I appreciate the assistance in this matter. Striving to encourage civility while writing under the very popular heading, called "Steel Players, may help to generate the necessary respect, expected to be observed in forum writers.

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 5 Feb 2010 10:28 am

Rightly so, Bill. I was thinking that, the main subject of your second post might possibly be misplaced and find more interest and discussion in the Tab or at very least, Pedal Steel sections of the forum where examples might be more welcomed and discovered. Of course offered with all due respect and civility.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 5 Feb 2010 10:59 am

I like 'gruff' chords.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 11:02 am

Dick,

Some musicians are so adept at clues, it's unbelievable. In this instance, "Steel Players" are printed at least a few times at the heading of the title page. This would make it most difficult to misinterpret a writer's intentness of a chosen subject matter.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 11:12 am

Barry,

I met a man several years ago who provided me with entertainment, simply by explaining how the different chords influenced a musician's liking of some, more than others.

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 5 Feb 2010 11:47 am

Alas Bill, I spit out the diminished bait, lest I flounder, and move elsewhere. I bid you a civil ado, Sir.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 5 Feb 2010 11:58 am

Bill-why didn't you use the word,"Polite" Polite First and Foremost. I had to look the word," Civility" up in the dictionary. Are we getting a Eiglish lesson or steel guitar lesson,from your posts?Are you trying to block some of us from reading your topices,having to look up all dem words you like to use? Joe

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 12:46 pm

Dick,

Tomorrow at 10:00 I'm expecting a guest musician to jam with me. I've spent the entire week jamming with musicians. I'm playing my homemade steel and various guitars. One musician a few days ago, requested "Ain't Misbehavin" and "You Don't Know Me". Just yesterday, a singer who missed his calling, requested "Night Life". Would that lead you to believe that "baiting" would be my favorite thing to do? I've had a lot of company this week. Perhaps you might imagine how proper chords enter into these Steel Player's exchanges.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 1:00 pm

Joe,

Please believe me when I tell you that I'm writing with the utmost restraint. I wouldn't dare to challenge some of the readers on the forum. Several moons ago, there came a barrage of various gifted writers who set the record straight on the forum. From that experience, I know what you are saying.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 5 Feb 2010 1:05 pm

Deleted in the interest of being civil.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 1:33 pm

Rick,

I'm sure that you are aware that we steel players are a curious lot. There are times when vague utterances relating to a problem, can raise havoc at midpoint of a restful slumber. I'll throw in a curve or two of my own. Would you agree that a true diminished chord requires plucking 4 tones simultaneously to complete the chord? After viewing hundreds of steel players, the most common visual display by cameras is one thumb pick and 2 metal picks on the index and middle finger. I'll maintain that a true diminished 7th chord requires the 3rd pick on the ring finger.

Stephen Silver · Post by **Stephen Silver** » 5 Feb 2010 1:47 pm

And an E13 and E69 chord has 5 notes. How do you play that Bill? Even more, a true E11 chord contains 6 notes...I guess that is only approachable by a 6 toed cat.

In fact it is rarely absolutely necessary to play all of the notes in a chord to properly inform the musical passage with that chord. Just ask Buddy Emmons, Paul Franklin, Herb Steiner, Earnest Bovine....oh I forgot, Herb and Paul have clearly stated they would no longer reply to your threads. I think Earnest is one of the better sources of this information as he is truly a gifted and studied musician, unlike the majority of us, yours truly included.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 5 Feb 2010 1:59 pm

Are you trying to block some of us from reading your topices,having to look up all dem words you like to use

I would say it is not Bill's vocabulary that imbues his posts with an obtuse quality. It is his rather unique and individual use (some would say misuse) of grammar and punctuation that creates obfuscation.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 5 Feb 2010 3:38 pm

Bill McCloskey wrote:
Are you trying to block some of us from reading your topices,having to look up all dem words you like to use
I would say it is not Bill's vocabulary that imbues his posts with an obtuse quality. It is his rather unique and individual use (some would say misuse) of grammar and punctuation that creates obfuscation.

I have no gig tonight! I'm lost as you can see.
Bill when I need to and I'm called to play a chord with 4 notes + I pick it with my ring finger without a pick. I can play without picks also.Racking the string is another way. I know, you know that. Joe

www.willowcreekband.com

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 3:48 pm

Steve,

When a youngster strums on a 6 string Spanish guitar, without placing the left hand on the fretboard, you are hearing a bunch of chords all rolled into one. That noise would include a 6th, 11th, and 13th version of open tuning chords. Those are chords closely related, by having the same notes to form their identities.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 5 Feb 2010 3:55 pm

Bill Hankey wrote:Bent,

I'm really quite interested in discussing the use of diminished chords. Willy Nelson (I believe) liked to slip in a few diminished chords in his songs as a songwriter. Chords can be described for their characteristic tones. The diminished chords sound a bit gruff and threatening, as compared to minor chords, as they (Dim.) demand resolution. Moving away from country music and choosing pop as some have done, (Eddy Arnold, Ray Price, and others) will necessitate working frequently with the diminished chords. A good song to sharpen the usages of the "gruff" chord, would be Connie Francis' "Who's Sorry Now?".

Bill I've found if you substitute the right 7th or 9th in place of a diminished chord (like most Jazz players do)they don't sound so gruff and threatening.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 4:00 pm

Bill M.,

I'm fairly confident that when it comes down to writing proper English, virtually all writers have problems following the rules of the language. It's a rare occasion to find someone who could expressly include all of the merits of the steel guitar.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Feb 2010 4:13 pm

Joe,

That statement you made about raking the chords. You can't rake a chord that requires spanning strings. One chord in particular that achieves pith resonance calls for spanning. More recently, I've found many uses for brushing chord melodies. However, when you play "White Christmas" next December, the major 7th chordal structures are called upon to stay with the song's written material. The top note played off the 2nd string must ring with clarity in the 4 note major 7th chord.

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