Logos On The Front Of Steel Guitars

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 2 Feb 2010 11:11 am

Richard

It's close, but I don't think the 'S' is a treble clef motif; it's a stylised 'S', in my opinion.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 2 Feb 2010 11:15 am

'Derby':

I'd always assumed that the name was inspired by the Great Man's headwear; only my assumption, I must stress. Is it, then, possible that the story was changed to the Kentucky Derby version when Buddy was no longer associated with the guitars?

Maybe both my suggestions are wide of the mark - maybe the name had some other source. Anyone know for sure?

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 2 Feb 2010 12:06 pm

I have always been told by Charles Stepp that the name Derby was in reference to ‘The Kentucky Derby’! I honestly can't say that I understand what horses have to do with Steel Guitars! But, I don't care! It's still an instrument that I'm proud to own, regardless of it's brand-name! It's also always been my opinion that Logo's are placed on things to advertise their maker without having to ask “who made that”? If all Steel Guitars were produced w/o logo's, no one would be happy either!

Richard Park · Post by **Richard Park** » 2 Feb 2010 12:40 pm

Sure looks like one to me. They just cut the little foot off it, flipped and tilted it.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 2 Feb 2010 12:52 pm

Hmmm: Since you put it like that, you could be right!

It never occured to me - and I had a Pro-111 for ten years or so!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 2 Feb 2010 1:09 pm

The Sho-Bud logo font was designed by Billy Robinson. I think he's a Forumite.

Trans-cultural migration Dept.: When I was touring the midwest back in the 70's, we found a brand of cookies made in Ohio called the "Shur-Good" whose logo was a direct knock-off of the 'Bud logo.

The Emmons logo is easy; the font resembles Buddy's signature, without the chevron, of course.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 2 Feb 2010 2:16 pm

I've always liked the Emmons logos, especially after I found out about the Buddy Emmons & Viceroy pack connection. Idea lasted. Uh! I also like the logos that are stick-ons. They can be easily removed and replaced with a different color. The under the lacquer Sho-Bud logo has always been a favorite of mine also. I guess my least favorite logo is the Derby logos with the large D. Of course, once the lights are turned down in a place, nobody notices anyway. It's what's under the hood and who's in the drivers seat that counts.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 2 Feb 2010 6:10 pm

Roger Rettig wrote:...And I'd always thought that the name 'Derby' was inspired by the Kentucky horse-race of the same name.

That 'hat' motif kind-of disproves that, doesn't it?

FWIW: I spoke w/ Charlie a few years ago, when I was interested in buying a D-10. I asked about the name "Derby" and he said it referred to the fact that nearby Louisville is home to the Kentucky Derby.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 2 Feb 2010 7:06 pm

So why the derby hat, I wonder?

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 2 Feb 2010 7:43 pm

Roger Rettig wrote:So why the derby hat, I wonder?

Easier to draw than a thoroughbred?

Ward Skinner · Post by **Ward Skinner** » 2 Feb 2010 8:48 pm

It's a subliminal message..except you can see it.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 2 Feb 2010 10:00 pm

I hope I may be forgiven, but I always thought the Derby name was an allusion to the Derby-wearing player we all know. Particularly when the logo had a Derby hat in it!!! While I have no reason at all to doubt the integrity of those associated with the brand name when they say it was always meant to refer to the Kentucky Derby, I can't help thinking that surely they were not UNaware of the association of the Derby hat with the world's best-known steel player? Especially when they incorporated a Derby hat in the logo?!

At any rate, I've always felt that even the later Derby logo, with the great big D but without the derby hat, was an unfortunately overstated logo. That wouldn't have kept me from buying one, though. (I haven't.)

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 3 Feb 2010 12:08 am

Brint Hannay wrote:I hope I may be forgiven, but I always thought the Derby name was an allusion to the Derby-wearing player we all know. Particularly when the logo had a Derby hat in it!!!

That's news to me.

I never knew Stan Laurel played pedal steel.

Jason Hull · Post by **Jason Hull** » 3 Feb 2010 4:02 am

I love that HONDA logo! (Belly laughs)

I'm restoring a Rosewood Sho-Bud, and I've thought of putting my own logo on it: ROSEBUD (see Citizen Kane).

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 3 Feb 2010 5:07 am

"Roger Rettig wrote:
...And I'd always thought that the name 'Derby' was inspired by the Kentucky horse-race of the same name. "

Yes, I did write that, but what I meant was that I
read somewhere that it was the Kentucky thingie that was the inspiration. I personally would take some convincing that, in fact, anything other than an association with Buddy Emmons was the real intention; especially when you consider how closely the Derby resembles an Emmons to start with.

I still think the Derby is a GREAT all-pull guitar, though, and I'd have another in a heartbeat!

Brian J. Doyle · Post by **Brian J. Doyle** » 3 Feb 2010 9:01 am

Roger, I agree with you 100%. One would be naive to think that the Derby name was only a reference to the Kentucky Derby and not to the Emmons guitar that inspired the Derby's design. The dual meaning is what makes it such a clever brand name. If the Derby were to use a thoroughbred in the logo along with the name Derby, that would be an infringement on the Kentucky Derby trademark. Likewise, if the guitar were named Buddy along with the Derby hat logo, I'm sure Mr. Emmons would have something to say about it.

Because most pedal steel guitars are designed after either the Sho-Bud or Emmons, the logo is usually the only thing that visually distinguishes one model from another. So, I agree that builders should give more consideration to a logo that is unique while still be classic. Since most logos on modern guitars seem uninspired, I would ask that a logo not be put on my guitar if I were to order a new guitar unless it was one of the few that I like. Some stick on logos can be easily removed, but the Jackson logo is a good example of a logo that, according to Bobbe Seymour, is placed underneath the finish. I am very interested in the Jackson guitar, but I would rather not have any logo on it. At least the Jackson logo is very discreet.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 3 Feb 2010 9:05 am

Thanks, Brian.

And Tony Glassman - that was funny!

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 3 Feb 2010 9:16 am

Richard Park wrote:Has any brand of steel ever placed the logo on the right side of the cabinet? I can't say I've ever seen one that did. Always left, like Sho-Bud.

Logo to the left, model to the right.

I like the "Roadmaster 75." I've got an old"Marquis" of a Mercury I loved years ago. An MSA Marquis model?

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 3 Feb 2010 9:41 am

What's 'Viceroy', please? I've never heard of whatever it is (apart, of course, from a high-ranking position in politics in the days of the Raj!).

Something American, obviously, but what? I'd thought that the chevron on an Emmons had its basis somewhere in US auto history. It has the 'look'.

I agree re: Derby's logo - too obtrusive. (And why the crown? Crown Derby??? Nah! No connection with English porcelain manufacture; I wonder?)

I always hated the Carter badge - looks to me like it belongs on a kitchen appliance.

Fessenden - I'm uncomfortable with anything that reinforces the 'western' stereotype. It doesn't help our instrument's general acceptance in a more-broad musical spectrum.

GFI: Goes with the quasi-industrial look of their guitars.

Sierra - ghastly!

No, sorry - for me it's Emmons and Sho-Bud still!

(I hope this post is accepted in a light-hearted spirit - I'm only half-serious!)

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 3 Feb 2010 9:59 am

Roger, Viceroy is a brand of cigarette that Buddy smoked at the time. The "V" idea came from the pack.

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 3 Feb 2010 10:00 am

Also, I think I remember some conversation about the Derby logo being too closely connected to implying an indorsement, and at someone's request, it was changed to eliminate the hat. The "Derby City" connection was then established due to being made close to Louisville, and the crown was added to the logo as another connection to the Kentucky Derby. But, I've slept since I heard that!

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 3 Feb 2010 10:05 am

I like logo's!!
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 3 Feb 2010 10:19 am

sho-bud was always the classiest, i thought. zumsteel was strange to me at first, but i've come to accept it. it would be a million times better if it were slightly smaller and made out of highly polished metal.

Ward Skinner · Post by **Ward Skinner** » 3 Feb 2010 10:22 am

To some, the offending logo. I've got a Rains, a Carter and a Derby, and have had comments by other steelers where they may not care for the Carter or Derby logo, nobody has mentioned anything about the Rains yet. I don't see any big deal about the logos, since 99.9% of the time I never see it. Aesthetically, I care more about the fretboard and top since that's what you see the vast majority of time.

The multicolored Rains fretboard is my favorite, easy on the eyes and high viz. Mine is black, I've always thought the 4 different colored rain drops would look good in the middle of the front apron, a la Sho Bud card symbols. I wonder if Greg could duplicate that?

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 3 Feb 2010 10:39 am

I wish you hadn't posted that, Ward - now I want a lacquer Derby!!! That's lovely!

I know I'm not 'seeing' the front of my guitar most of the time, but one of the things I've loved the most about fifty+ years spent ogling, buying, playing, or simply lusting after musical instruments has been their various aesthetic qualities. Gibsons, Gretsches, Fenders, Martins, Sho-Buds and Emmons - there's an unmistakable identity with each one, and it's lodged forever in my consciousness.

Oh, while I'm not over-fond of that Derby logo, I'd never remove or change it - it's a part of the guitar and that's final with me.

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