Open up that bottom end of the E9th

[Brad Malone]

New idea..maybe..probably other people thought about this but I just checked a list of E9th pedals setups and no one seems to have it....I could have missed it. What I am talking about is, is lowering the 10th string on the E9th tuning, lowering it from B to A with the C pedal. Now with the B&C pedal and the RR knee lever that lowers the 9th string from D to C# and also lowers the second string Eb to C# we would have an A6th chord across the entire 10 strings: from bottom to top, they would be A-C#-E-F#-A-C#-F#-A-C#-F#. All it would require is an extra rod and bell crank. For people that do not use the C pedal much they could just remove the 4th string pull and move it down to the 10th string lower. Any which way, it seems to me that this would open up the bottom end of the E9th tuning. It almost seems too easy, so I must be missing something....please fire away.

[Marc Friedland]

Brad,

I agree with having an option of a low A note on string 10 a good idea. My way of getting it is different than yours of having it on the C pedal.

On my Left Knee Vertical I lower my 5th & 10th strings.
The 5th string is lowered a half step to Bb, and the 10th string is lowered a full step to A. This is not typical, but works well for me.

Marc

http://www.PedalSteelGuitarMusic.com

[Jay Jessup]

I just lower it down to A with the A pedal instead of raising it to C#, the trade off for what I lose is OK with me. It's certainly a easy thing to do for an experiment no need for an extra rod or bellcrank, all you have to do is reposition the rod in the lower hole in the changer---and quick to change back if you don't like it!

[b0b]

I've always liked that idea. The biggest downside isn't musical - it's physical. Three full-step pulls makes a pretty stiff pedal, especially if you're used to bouncing on it for those fast Bakersfield licks.

[Larry Hamilton]

I lower the B to an A on a knee lever along with the D to Db with a 2nd string move. Yeah it's pretty stiff but worth it.

[Cliff Kane]

Brad,
I have that change on my guitars: in addition to the regular C pedal changes, my C pedal also lowers string 10 to an A. I love it, it works great for getting a low A chord when lowering string 9 (as you mentioned), and it's really nice to have that low A note for leads and melody playing. A lot of players with a fourth "Franklin" pedal get the 10 string full step lower, but if you've got a basic set up like 3x4 or 3x5 I think it's a great change to have. I have it on an Emmons push-pull guitar and an EMCI all-pull guitar, and I don't find that it adds too much stiffness to the pedal.

[Brad Malone]

b0b, correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought that R. Mooney just raised the 4th string from E to F# alone for those Bakersfield licks...I read someplace that he did not have the traditional C pedal setup.

[Brad Malone]

Cliff Kane, I should have known that a California guy would have had the idea before me. As you say, because it is a lower it should not add that much stiffness to the pedal but it sure opens up that bottom end when using it in combination with the B pedal & RR knee lever. Here is another thought, a lot of guys do not use the C pedal that much so they can just move that 4th string pull to the 10th string lower and get a nice A6th straight across the 10 strings with the B, C, pedals and the RR knee lever. I'm surprised that more people do not have this..I'm always trying to get more out of that great 10 string E9th tuning...without adding any more pedals or knee levers.

[Ben Lawson]

I lower nine 1/2 step and 10 a whole step on a knee lever. Jimmy Crawford built my P/P in '77 and when I told him to drop the 10th a whole tone he suggested the half tone drop on 9. After all these years John Widgren gave me some insite, a few weeks ago, on how to use it more effectivly. I'm still playing with it but I found that raising the 6th to A and lowering the 9th & 10th as above, I can can get some pretty convincing C6th stuff. It helps when we do medleys as there is often a time issue to change necks.

[Brad Malone]

>>I lower the B to an A on a knee lever along with the D to Db with a 2nd string move. Yeah it's pretty stiff but worth it<<

Larry H., I like your way, all your pulls are lowers. It opens up that bottom end..great idea

[Jerry Hayes R.I.P.]

Back in my old SoCal days a friend of mine who was an exceptional steelman (James O'Rafferty) had his steel set up with the 9th string tuned to C# instead of D and on his A pedal he raised his 5th string to C# and lowered his 10th string to A like Jay does. He got a bunch out of that setup. I've tuned the 9th string to C# on my S-12 for awhile now and have been toying with the idea of lowering the 10th string B to A also. Maybe I'll try it after my health problem eases a little.....JH in Va.

[Brad Malone]

Ben L, Yes, and with your C pedal engaged you'll get a C# on the 5th and F# on the 4th..you have A6TH across all 10 strings.

[Brad Malone]

Jerry Hayes, I would never change my 9th string from D...I just would not want to lose what it gives me..I think God put it there.

[David Griffin]

I've had this setup for years,saw it Winnie Winstons' book in the 70s.I think it was on Al Perkins' copedent.A nice use for this is resolving the 5/7th chord on strings 6,9 & 10 to a 1 chord by engaging b-c pedals & knee lever lowering 9th string D>C#. You get a cool "contrary motion" between the 9th & 10th strings & the 6th string.

[Brad Malone]

David, Thank you very much for your post, you made me go search for Winnie's book and I looked at all the tunings he had listed on pages 120 to 126. Well, here is what I found, in my book on page 121 was listed the same idea I had but it was under BUDDY CAGE's E9th tuning..he has the C pedal raising strings 4 and 5 and lowering string 10 from B to A. He lowers his 9th D string to C# with his LLKL. My book does not show Al Perkins lowering his 10 string to A, it shows him lowering it to Bb on his 11 string neck.

[Brad Malone]

Jay Jessup, Thanks for posting, your idea is the most efficient way of opening up that bottom end of the E9th and getting that full A6th chord. Your way allows the player to keep his foot right on the A and B pedals plus engaging the RRKL to make the change..no need to move the foot over to the B and C pedals. Also, with your way one is not raising the 4th string to F#, another plus IMHO. We must remember that the idea of raising the 10th string from B to C# came before the idea of lowering the 9th string D to C#. Whenever we make a change we open up another range of possibilities. Your idea of getting to that full A6th chord is a good one because it does not load up the changer with more pulls and you can keep that left foot right on A and B pedals. The loss of raising String 10 from B to C# is small when weighed against the gains...IMHO.

[Barry Hyman]

Want bottom end? Get a 12 string! I get that low A by raising the 11th string G# to A...

[Brad Malone]

I lower the B to an A on a knee lever along with the D to Db with a 2nd string move. Yeah it's pretty stiff but worth it.<<

Larry Hamilton, after rereading all the posts, I think I will go your way..Thanks a million.

[Brad Malone]

Barry H. I always said that we should have at least 11 strings because 8 was standard, then they added the G# on 3, the Eb on 2 and the F# on one but only went to a 10 stringer..I always missed that low G# we had on string 8...no doubt that 12 string is the way to go but I'm trying to get the most out of my 10 stringer

[Larry Hamilton]

Brad, glad you like it and I am honored with your decision. I honestly can't think who showed it to me but I am real sure it was Terry Bethel. There are some neat resolutions, turnarounds, of course c6th sounding stuff, I'm no super picker but I realy like the little bit I do with it. Good luck.

[b0b]

I'm getting low E on a 8 string.

You don't necessarily need more strings to get the low range and keep your E9th chops. Think: "What feature of the E9th do I use the least, and how could I sacrifice it to expand the low end?" There are a lot of different answers to that question.

[Georg Sørtun]

I'm getting the low E - or D - on 10 strings...
http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/var/s10tt-88.html
...and ain't missing any above it.

[Brad Malone]

Larry H., Thanks again, yesterday I emailed Bill R. at Williams and he is going to send me the "Pull Train" (Bellcrank and tuning rod)to make the addition. It is great to have a guy like Bill R. to deal with, he gives great and fast service. BTW, the cost is only $30 incl. shipping.

[Leon Brannan]

Brad, I posted my method some time ago,and with Drew Howard's assistance, he posted my copedant. I don't know how to provide a link to that post. My original subject title is; Expanded E-9(B-6,D-6,A-6&G-6) Perhaps you can do a search and find the post.I attempted to explain what I have discovered, and I'm sure more possibilities are hiding within. Leon

[Brad Malone]

Leon B, Thanks for your reply, I will do a search as you suggested. The E9th tuning with all its pedals and knee levers is one powerful tuning..thanks for your work and ideas to make it better. I still think we should have 11 strings.