One of the hottest Record Session Bands..................

[Ray Montee (RIP)]

Back when JERRY BYRD was with the Pleasant Valley Boys, they were the hottest country musical group in the nation. This was BEFORE Nashville had a Music Row.

According to Judy Perkins, a Mercury Record Vocal Talent active in the Cincinnati area at that time, "Most of them didn't read music"...... "but they were able to quickly pick up something and figure out an arrangement and record it within the three hour time limitation allowed by the studio, for both sides of the record."

On another post here on the Forum during this past week, a question was asked in essance, "How does one know if they're ready for the BIG TIME."

I'd have say that if you have enough confidence and creativity in addition to skillfully accurate playing talents..........one could consider themselves ready for the name in BIG LIGHTS.

[b0b]

There is no "big time" for musicians anymore. The internet has given everyone free distribution of their music, worldwide.

[Alan Brookes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAJh-M7CFOM

There have been several bands over the years playing as the Pleasant Valley Boys. I wonder if there is any continuity with the older band.

http://www.hillbilly-music.com/artists/ ... p?id=10027

Check the above out. I'm sure you'll find it interesting.

I'M SO LONESOME I COULD CRY
(Hank Williams)
© 1949 by Fred Rose, Inc.
Original recording: Hank Williams with The Pleasant Valley Boys (Zeke Turner, Jerry Byrd, and Louis Innis), E. T. Herzog Studio, Cincinnati, OH, Aug 30, 1949 (master: 49-S-6072; released as M-G-M 10560, Nov 1949.

[Ray Montee (RIP)]

ALAN......good point you've made here.

No, IMHO, I don't believe there is ANY connection with any other group using that name. I'm aware that there were several other groups throughout that region that used the same name........but....

It's somewhat like how different groups were using
'the STRING DUSTERS".......which ultimately became the name of Jerry's group on his early Mercury Records.

And too, Zeke Turner, Louis Innis and Tommy Jackson worked with Jerry for many years......under different band names but it was nonetheless, the same pickers involved.

[Stu Schulman]

Alvin Crow & his Pleasant Valley boys were an Austin Tejas band,They had a great steel guitar player...I forgot his name.

[Ray Montee (RIP)]

If I remember accurately, the area in and around LIMA, Ohio, has long been known as PLEASANT VALLEY, thus the choice of names.

Ernie Lee & Jerry Byrd, early on, were known as the Renfro Valley Boys..........Kentucky.

Red Foley's Nashville Opry band was the Cumberland Valley Boys.

[Stu Schulman]

There's a street in South Austin named Pleasant Valley Road,My guess is that's where they got the name although I've been wrong about a lot of things.

[Allen Kentfield]

That's funny, Stu.
Wasn't Alvin Crow's steel man, and composer of his best-known hit "Nyquil Blues", none other than Forum member Herb Steiner?
I also believe Zeke Turner, with Hank Williams' studio band was the originator of the "tic-tac" elec. rythm guitar style. Check out "Honky-Tonkin."
It was Tommy Jackson's first time in a studio!

Al Kentfield
Jonestown, Texas

[Stu Schulman]

Allen,Oh yeah it was that Steiner kid,Thanks

[Ray Montee (RIP)]

The sources I checked stated that Tommy Jackson, fiddler, started his professional career at age 13 and had been on recordings and the road with several top blue grass bands before he was 18.

Sick of the travel hassels........he elected to do session work exclusively.

TRUE or False?

[Skeeter Stultz]

Ray, Thanks for the posting. I well remember the Pleasant Valley Boys. I heard them a lot on WLW but very few times on TV as we never had one till after Jerry went back to Nashville. Then about the mid fifties I did a few shows with Zeke. I regret that I never got to see Jerry play in person. I guess it just wasn't in the cards. Zeke told me of when they were leaving Nashville to work on the Hayride he told this one guitar player who was hanging out behind the Opry just hoping for a job that Foley would be looking for a picker. That guy was Grady Martin. And the rest is history.
Also Chet, Jerry, and Homer and Jethro did some insturmentals on RCA and I think they called themselves the Stringdusters.

[Ray Montee (RIP)]

Skeeter....... Jerry Byrd told me the reason he left Nashville to return to Cincinnati was the offer made to them, to appear on the "NEW" WLW Television Show, MidWestern Hayride. Thereafter, he busied himself doing session work at the Herzog Studio there in Cincinnati....and later at King Records.

Yes, after Jerry's departure from Nashville, Billy Robinson and the great Grady Martin easily assumed the role of lead players for Red Foley.

Yes, Jerry Byrd, Chet Atkins, Dale Potter and Homer & Jethro made a series of recordings for RCA Victor
using the name The Country All-Stars.....NOT, the String Dusters.

[Alan Brookes]

http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Hills-Countr ... B00000ARI2

Still in print.

[Allen Kentfield]

Ray,

I think I must correct myself. If I remember right, from Hank Williams biography, and Tommy Jackson interview, his first recording was Move It On Over, recorded in 1946. He was probably on the Opry before that.

You're very familiar with that period, do you agree that Zeke Turner was the originator of the electric "tic-tac" guitar? I think Harold Bradley called it the six-string electric bass.

"Pleasant Valley Boys","Cumberland Valley Boys","Renfro Valley Boys, or whatever you want to call them; Byrd, Turner, Jackson, Innis and Coursey WERE the hot band of the late 40's, producing (IMOHO), some of the greatest music of all time, and the springboard of the Nashville sound.

By the way, Ray, do you know Jimmy Patton? I worked with him at Sam's Town/Laughlin in the mid-80's. His guitar man, Lou Crenshaw, played a good tic-tac Telecaster.



Al Kentfield
Jonestown, Texas

[Ray Montee (RIP)]

Allen........My memory is not what it used to be but I do believe "Patton" has passed.......

I think he was the first one in Portland some years ago, to make a left turn directly in front of one of the city's newest 'light rail' trains and was hospitalized for his injuries. Further, I believe records will show he was the last person KILLED by the same railroad here in town. How 'bout that!
I hope I'm correct on this info'..... I sure wouldn't state it maliciously.

Now about Zeke Turner.......... I only recently heard 'that term' so can't really comment on it. I know he had one of the most complete arsenals on guitar 'boogie' licks of anyone I've ever heard and his two guitar arrangements with JERRY BYRD are second to none.

[Bill Cunningham]

As I understand, Zeke Turner's "bump rhythm" on the Hank records is the famous 1,3,5,3 pattern played on muted strings of his electric guitar.

Tic Tac is not the same thing. Its invention is generally credited to Harold Bradley. It is played on a six string electric bass (most often a Danelectro). The six string electric bass is a long scale instrument tuned one octave below the standard guitar; unlike the standard 4 string electric bass which is two octaves below the standard guitar. The "tic tac" technique is to play exactly the same notes as the standard bass. The tic tac is most often used when the standard bass on the recording is an upright instead of electric. You have to listen closely to even hear it since it is more "felt" than heard. The amp eq is set to max treble and no bass. The sound is more of a pop or click than a bass sound.

Listen closely to Patsy Cline's recording of "Sweet Dreams", a lot of the new Texas recordings by Justin Trevino, Jake Hooker, etc, or most Nashville recordings of the 1960's- 80's. You can hear this on Laney Hicks records as Russ likes to use it also.

Bottom line, the only similarity between Zeke Turner's "bump rhythm" and "tic tac" is that both techniques require the player to mute the strings with his right palm. They are played on different instruments.


Here is a pic of my Dan Electro six string bass.




Ray, I apologize for the topic drift.

[b0b]

As I understand, Zeke Turner's "bump rhythm" on the Hank records is the famous 1,3,5,3 pattern played on muted strings of his electric guitar.

Tic Tac is not the same thing. Its invention is generally credited to Harold Bradley. It is played on a six string electric bass (most often a Danelectro). The six string electric bass is a long scale instrument tuned one octave below the standard guitar; unlike the standard 4 string electric bass which is two octaves below the standard guitar.

The standard electric bass is only one octave below guitar. The Danelectro pictured is, I think, a baritone guitar. A standard guitar's standard tuning (low to high) is E A D G B E. Baritone guitars are usually tuned a perfect fourth lower than standard guitar: B E A D F# B. You could tune them lower, of course.

Modern 6 string electric basses usually have the standard 4 strings in the middle, adding lower and higher strings on the outside.

[b0b]

I just did a little research and found this on a Danelectro web site:

The only difference between the Danelectro 6 string bass and the Danelectro Baritone is the size of the string holes on the bridge and the size of the string holes on the tuners. The holes on the bass are slightly larger than the baritone to accomodate the size of the strings. Therefore, the 6 string bass can easily become a baritone but a baritone can not become a six string bass. Both Baritone and the 6 String Bass are 29 - 1/2" scale.

6-String Bass Tuning

The standard tuning for a six-string bass from lowest pitch to highest (thickest string to thinnest) is: B – E – A – D – G – C

[Bill Cunningham]

Hi Bob.

My Dano Bass Guitar currently has D’Addario XL-156 strings. Gauges low to high are .084- .072- .056- .044- .034- .024.

From the back label of the D’Addario package---“Introducing our new 6 string guitar/bass string set. To clarify, a 6-string guitar/bass is normally played with a pick and is tuned just like a guitar except one octave lower. There are several manufacturers that make this type of instrument. THIS SET IS DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY FOR THE “FENDER BASS VI.”

Also from the label in a separate location---“THIS IS NOT A BASS GUITAR SET UTILIZING A LOW “B” OR A HIGH “C”.

A similar D’Addario set, XL155, is “Designed for the Jerry Jones Longhorn” but appears to be exactly the same pitches, gauges and tensions. Good marketing maybe.

When I became interested in the “tic tac” a few years ago, the question of baritone guitar versus bass guitar was quiet confusing to me. I am confident that the proper tuning of the Nashville "tic tac guitar" is one octave lower than guitar. My statements are only because I have verified the facts with a couple of Nashville A-Teamer’s who have “been there and done that”.

I may very well be wrong on the statement that a standard bass is two octaves lower than a guitar. I will leave that to more “learned musicians” to argue. Maybe its just the timbre difference I hear. I've never compared by ear with a piano or analyzed a sheet of music.

[b0b]

That makes sense, Bill. Glad that we cleared that up.

[Alan Brookes]

...we're drifting off the subject of Jerry Byrd.

[Bill Cunningham]

I apologize again for the topic drift.

Back on Mr. Byrd.....

I have been meaning to ask for some time, was he a little bitter as his star faded in Nashville? I seem to remember that he referred to pedals on a steel guitar as a gimmick.

[b0b]

Sorry, I didn't realize that this topic was supposed to be about Jerry Byrd.

[Skeeter Stultz]

Bill, In '54 I also said pedals were just a gimmick. How much music could you get out of one pedal changing two strings. In '60 I asked Don Helms about pedals and he said a player could lose identity which in his and Jerry's case would be true.

[Allen Kentfield]

Bill,

Zeke dead-muted the strings on his electric guitar and played either single string bass on 1&3 or chopped chord on 2&4 for rythm, not all four beats. He did do a very unique boogie pattern on "My Bucket's Got a Hole In It." The muted style is what I call tic-tac, not the instrument.
Chet Atkins played all four beats in kind of an electric Carter Family style.

Al Kentfield
Jonestown, Texas