Put-downs And Squashed Performances

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 18 Dec 2009 3:59 pm

Susan Alcorn chooses to play her own music, and it's possible that her is not conducive to playing country. But put her in an E9 neck, and she can play country as well as, if not better than, anybody here. She is a one time student of Jeff Newman and a KILLER country player.

She doesn't play country, but don't think for a second that she can't.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 18 Dec 2009 6:29 pm

Mike,

I've been waiting for the right moment to say that country music is very special to me. I would be quite dissatisfied listening to anyone who skirts around playing steel properly, by omitting country music from a long range format. That is to say, don't wait up to hear a Buddy Emmons intro.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 18 Dec 2009 7:57 pm

Bill Hankey wrote:Mike,

I've been waiting for the right moment to say that country music is very special to me. I would be quite dissatisfied listening to anyone who skirts around playing steel properly, by omitting country music from a long range format. That is to say, don't wait up to hear a Buddy Emmons intro.

Bill, with all due respect, I have to say that is a very closed minded point of view. The pedal steel guitar is not simply a country instrument, it is a musical instrument, capable of performing in many different genres.

Saying that in order to play the steel "properly" one must play country music makes about as much sense as saying that to play the piano properly one must play a Beethoven sonata, or to play the saxophone properly one must play jazz.

You can like whatever you want. There is nothing wrong with wanting to hear the steel guitar play country music. But there is something wrong with saying that players who are expanding the capacity of the instrument like Susan Alcorn, B.J. Cole. Hal Merrill, Al Vescovo, Robert Powell, Chas Smith, Demola Adepoju (the steel player for King Sunny Adé in Nigeria,) and myself do not play the steel "properly."

Do not hold us hostage to your personal preferences.

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 18 Dec 2009 10:12 pm

Bill,

Here is my response from a couple days ago before the forum became inaccessible:

I find with most "beginners" my directions lead more towards the basic things: right hand position, pick angle, how to hold the bar and the first 4 major chord triads. If asked who to listen to, I would most likely reply Lloyd, Buddy, Weldon, Hal, Ralph.....you get the idea. I'm not all that familiar with Sarah's stuff, although I know she's tremendous.
I'm not sure which "Theater" you are referring to.

As far as the seasonal thing.....I dread winter. My guitars always come inside, but the seat stays in an unheated garage so my bars are subject to ambient temperature (which was below zero yesterday). I usually take the bar out and put it in my pocket while I'm setting up to warm it up for a while. Brrrrrrr! Don't put your tongue on it!!! I have had some times when traveling this country, when my instrument would be in a trailer or the back of a pickup and produce frost when exposed to inside air. No good.
I've heard of steel players carrying a hair dryer to hasten the warm-up. Now I have a cozy mini-van with heat throughout so that isn't as much of an issue.
Of course all steel players have issues with temperature changes, but the winters are the worst.
Bill, I have never played in western Mass. but did some shows around Cape Cod a couple years ago. I'd love to see the Berkshires someday.
Put-downs? Only in jest. Confrontation? I try to avoid it. Actually, I solicit feedback sometimes in order to improve or get a reality check from musicians I admire. Many times it's just, "Am I too loud?" I have had some "confrontation" in that department, now that I think of it!! I try to be more conscientious about that nowadays.

Looks like the tone has changed a bit on this thread since the other day. That being said, let me throw my hat in the fray as well. Even though I play country for most of my living and love it, I have to agree with Mike that limiting a musical instrument to one type of music is not in the best interest of said instrument. I think expansion of the pedal steel into other genres is a very important thing to quell obsolecence.

So how is the weather out there?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Dec 2009 4:41 am

Mike,

All kidding aside, I truly feel that you are deftly creating an image of me that does not exist. I've questioned the values of Susan Alcorn's expansive talents. It becomes obvious that her choice of material would be most difficult to follow. I've never really delved into a furtherance of trying to comprehend her musical preferences. I'd be crowding to squeeze through the doors if Susan suddenly treated a gathering to a set of heart to heart country music. I suspect her purpose in life, would be hard pressed to exceed the skills of Emmons, Day, Chalker, Myrick, Rugg, and countless others. My point is that I'm pouncing on the thought of putting her on a pedestal for reasons unrelated to the usual trends in musical studies. Randomly, I suggest that the human voice should accompany the steel guitar, to take it to levels of perfection. Influences that create a will to surpass previous efforts to succeed, should play into extended activities at all levels of development.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Dec 2009 6:10 am

Joe,

I feel strongly if we can avoid matters of secondary importance, our exchanges could materialize into useful ideas related to playing the steel guitar. We both know that trying to cope with temperatures below freezing levels is a no win situation. As a matter of fact, keeping the steel settled into a nonchanging temperature, will rid the multiples of tuning problems that are common in changing levels of warmth or freezing temperatures. Steel strings are hypersensitive to these changes, making tuning problems conversely impossible to overcome.

There is a wintry storm brewing for our area. A storm watch is in effect.

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 19 Dec 2009 6:45 am

Bill,
And of course unless I never leave the house or have my guitar in a perfectly climate controlled room, temperature changes will always be a factor in tuning.
I was just making conversation. That can sometimes result in an exchange of useful ideas.

Speaking of secondary importance, isn't the very topic of this thread of secondary importance? Also, if you are referring to steel guitar promotion outside of country music as secondarily important, we would have to differ. That being said, I'm sure we can find actual things to talk about that are in common to pedal steel player of any genre.
Probably no one will surpass the contributions made by those you mentioned, but that does not mean their work has no meaning.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Dec 2009 8:37 am

Joe,

Safeguarding memory is a constant challenge. The wear and tear of constant thinking about matters of everyday life, takes it's toll as we age. Many thousands of activities that we were involved in while living out our lives are completely forgotten.

I'd certainly wish for no retention of your comment about this thread. Responding to such extreme opposites of opinion, is not for the wearied, made so from many years of superficial calumnies on the road. Put-downs have been known to destroy many would be friendships.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 19 Dec 2009 9:31 am

Bill, If you had substituted the phrase "in the traditional manner" or in the usual way" for the word "Properly" I'd have no cause for comment. But the word properly carries with a a value judgment. Proper is good. improper is bad.

Whether you meant it to do so or not, your post de-legitimizes the work of all the artists I mentioned in my last post.

Granted, some is Susan's music is not easily understood, and she certainly does not represent the traditional use of the steel guitar. But like Robert Randolph, she is reaching a different (although considerably smaller) audience who does not listen to country music, and is not familiar with our instrument, and introducing it to them, on their terms.

I have been attempting to do the same thing with the classical music audience, and after years of frustration, am finally starting to see some progress. The initial reactions to my efforts included comments along like "I'm not going to listen to your recordings because that's only a country instrument incapable of playing anything else, and you must have played the music country style," and "That's not even a real instrument." etc.

Today, I'm finally making some inroads with this community (primarily because of the chamber music trio,) and the comments are more along the lines of "Wow, what it that instrument, I've never seen one before but it sounds lovely," and "I saw one on TV but I never knew what it's called. I love the way it blends with the viola and cello."

Are artists like the others and myself untraditional? Yes. Our of the mainstream? Most definitely. But improper? No way.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 19 Dec 2009 9:34 am

Joe Savage wrote: I never leave the house or have my guitar in a perfectly climate controlled room, temperature changes will always be a factor in tuning.

Not if you play a Millennium.

Charlie Shifflett · Post by **Charlie Shifflett** » 19 Dec 2009 9:41 am

Hello Jody Sanders
Charlie here just a line I no you no Mr Lentz
he plays steel up around Old Glory Tx. . We need to
get togather and start the WTSGA again I talked to
him a while back dont no about getting it started
Back to the postings I agree with who it was said
hey Iam geting paid and you paid to get in HaHa.
everyone have a very Merry Christmas an Happy
NEW YEAR.Be safe guys.Charlie

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 19 Dec 2009 9:48 am

Mike, kudos to you and what you have done and are doing for the pedal steel guitar. You have proved your points adequately for those of us who at least attempt to understand.

For the dogmatic, narrow minded among us...well, they will never be able to see other points of view than their own.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Dec 2009 10:54 am

Mike,

I know nothing in terms of how you arrived at the levels of expertise that are so pronounced in your music. You certainly are classified as one of the very few who have progressed into a series of rare examples of what can be done with a steel guitar. I have the highest levels of respect for your creative music. My chances of catching a glimpse of how you maintain such high standards are very slim. The message here is that I do admire your high standards of musical perfection.

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 19 Dec 2009 11:42 am

Or live in California, Mike!!!!

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 19 Dec 2009 11:50 am

Bill Hankey wrote:Mike,

I know nothing in terms of how you arrived at the levels of expertise that is so pronounced in your music.

Bill, I don't ask that you do, only that you grant me permission to continue to walk the road I'm walking without condemnation. Again, it was the word "Properly" with it's implied value judgment, that caused me to write what I did.

You certainly are classified as one of the very few who have progressed into a series of rare examples of what can be done with a steel guitar.

There are more of us doing this than anybody realizes. I just have a higher public profile than most.

There will always be many who enjoy playing and listening to country style steel guitar music. But there has to be room for those of us who are looking elsewhere. We are all brothers and sisters in the family of steel guitarists. We should embrace not just those who play in the more popular styles, but those who venture forth into new territory as well.

Even if some of that territory seems to be on another planet.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Dec 2009 12:40 pm

Mike,

Musically speaking, whatever catches the attention of a particular audience, while playing selections, obviously could serve as a guide to please, by following a pattern of receptiveness. As life rushes by, we struggle to please, and work for hours, surviving only by the will to bring our music to the people.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 19 Dec 2009 3:15 pm

Bill, if your bag is listening to the likes of Marie Osmond singing Paper Roses, then I'm going to have to find a whole new plane of communication when addressing you in the future.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 19 Dec 2009 3:53 pm

Barry Blackwood wrote:Bill, if your bag is listening to the likes of Marie Osmond singing Paper Roses, then I'm going to have to find a whole new plane of communication when addressing you in the future.

Marie was okay I guess, but I much prefer Marsha Brady and the Brady Kids band, or maybe the Partridge Family. It's hard to pick between them, and then there's Brad Paisley to consider too.

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 19 Dec 2009 6:18 pm

I sentence myself to an extra two hours of psg practice as punishment for having wasted time following this weird and incoherent post...

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 19 Dec 2009 6:38 pm

Welcome to Hankeyworld.

Mike Schwartzman · Post by **Mike Schwartzman** » 19 Dec 2009 6:47 pm

Critical put-downs may disrupt the thought processes of a performer's best abilities. Distractions at close quarters can produce the same effect.

Absolutely Bill! This is a music murdering function. In the context of a gig it is a professional no no. This goes for any member of any emsemble, IMO. The occasional blooper or missed note comes and goes. Should these mistakes go on perpetually, that's a different story... maybe best covered in a different topic. BUT... I do have a story to tell on a put-down coming coming from an audience member at close quarters:

This was a local blues gig about 12 yrs ago in my pre-pedal steel days. I was on bass and we had a pretty good lead guitarist/ front man. He was blessed with a nice tenor voice, After each tune there was a big fellow cheering and clapping at a front table. His table had plenty of empty beer bottles and he was the only patron at that table. He would yell,"Hey that's great, do some more, and put a little more GUTS into it". He kept this up with each tune, referring to wanting a "less sweet" quality of vocals than our singer had...he was a toneful tenor. Finally, when the break song came the fellow once again asked for more "GUTS", and our frustrated singer asked him, "Who are you...Some kind of music critic??"

That big guy at the table never missed a beat and replied loudly: "NAW, I"M THE DRUNK IN THE FRONT ROW".

I must confess, I laughed well into the next set.

I type this true story being snow bound in the house this evening in MD. Watch out Bill, they say it maybe headed towards your area, but you are probably much more used to this type of snow than we are. Back to the practice room.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 19 Dec 2009 10:44 pm

Susan Alcorn is an excellent country steel player. She prefers to record and perform in a different musical genre where steel is less common. Don't assume that someone can't play something unless you've heard their complete repertoire.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 19 Dec 2009 11:01 pm

If you want to be a musician, you have to develop a thick skin. Of course, the worst musicians tend to have the thickest skin, impenetrable by even the strongest bullets. Arsenic usually does the trick.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 20 Dec 2009 5:16 am

b0b,

Some time ago, someone reasoned that if you have something good, there isn't a need to advertise your merchandise, the people will find it. I can think of many things that we may possess that would attract attention immediately, once the desirable commodities find the light of day. What earthly good are hidden treasures? Another individual was heard to say in a crude manner: "If you have something good, flaunt it." MIKE NEER from the "Joisy" East Coast would introduce intimidation. Intimidations in most situations at all levels are very effective when directed at the meek and mild individual. It has always been of great interest to view those who have the ability to avoid quaking in their boots, at the first sight of a domineering figure. I realize that I'm not a key figure in the garden of hopefuls, one who never would measure up to the special skills of such notables as Susan Alcorn, or Mike Perlowin. Having said that much concerning expertise known to exist in creative musicians, I'm not prepared to abandon worthwhile methodologies in music, that could surface, and change a large pattern of thoughts, that would in turn, eliminate rushing to form opinions.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 20 Dec 2009 10:22 am

I must say that I do not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Susan. She is a 1st class player, who, when she chooses to play country and plays an E9 tuning, (I'm not sure her new S-12 tuning has the necessary changes,) is as good as any professional Nashville player today. She really is that good.

I on the other hand, am merely, and just barely, competent. My greatest skill is that of recording engineer, and whatever I've accomplished on my recordings is the result of studio trickery. Not great musicianship.

I have a reputation of being better than I actually am, and I'm afraid the everybody who hears me play live is going to be very disappointed.