Good tone enables better playing, I think?

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 10 Dec 2009 7:16 am

Both of my "go to" Peavey amps are in need of rebuilds. An old Nashville 400 and a Vegas 400. Since they have recently become unreliable (not Peaveys fault) I took out a 70's Session 400 that I completely recapped. Well, it seemed like it took me forever to dial in the tone I wanted, got close and settled on it. Still, I didn't feel it sounded as good as I wanted it to sound. Therefore, while playing, I had a lingering feeling of frustration and dissatisfaction, that, I feel, caused me to play not quite up to my usual level.
Is this common to any of you out there? I'm going to set all my amps up and compare tones. Then, I'm going to dial them all as close as possible and write the settings down. Why I haven't done this sooner is a mystery to me.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 10 Dec 2009 9:02 am

I'm with you for sure, Dave. That's one of the several reasons I've really loved my Stereo Steel rig, with closed-back cabs. It seems much more consistent tonally than open back cabs or amps, from venue to venue, and for different sizes of stages and acoustic spaces.
It's been much easier for me to get the same relative tone for most gigs. The stereo fatness, portability and reliability are frosting.
Now if I could just get my dang fangers to sound the same...

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 10 Dec 2009 9:40 am

Absolutely, Dave. When tone sucks, playing is affected.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 10 Dec 2009 10:28 am

absotively....on the rare occassion that you get the magic tone the steel plays itself!

when you have to concentrate on getting some 'just usable' tone, there is not as much room for 'free thought' playing.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 10 Dec 2009 1:25 pm

posilutely....it makes a big difference.

My tired old licks all sound so much better and I can play them much easier when the tone is there.

Lee

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 10 Dec 2009 2:25 pm

Yes, I firmly believe, that, the tone coming out of your amp or amps, reflects on how you play. When I found my sweet spot on my amps, I used a magic marker to mark the dials. That way, I always had my reference spot to work from, in case something got moved. Many times, because of different venues, I would adjust the dials accordingly to find the tone I wanted. But, sometimes it was impossible to find that sweet spot and I lived with it, but, I was not comfortable with the tone. It makes for a tedious and forgetful gig.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 10 Dec 2009 2:38 pm

Absitively posolutely. If it sounds bad, it is bad. The logical inverse (If it sounds good, it is good) doesn't necessarily follow, but sounding good is key.

My opinion, anyway.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 10 Dec 2009 3:32 pm

Abdo-lutely! But, unlike you, I wasn't happy 'til I ditched the Vegas and got a Twin.

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 10 Dec 2009 3:55 pm

I agree Dave, when the tone's right I believe you play better than you thought you ever could.

Tony

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 10 Dec 2009 4:15 pm

I find that the tone doesn't have to be "bad" to affect my playing enjoyment, just not quite what I'm going for. John, you are correct about a good twin, or most Fender amps in general. I'm glad you brought that up. Most Fender amps sound good with wherever the tone knobs are set. I can't tell you how many times I've plugged into one and went "sounds great" without messing with the knobs. I do have several higher powered Fenders at my disposal (including a Twin), I just don't like hauling the weight, and worrying about tubes etc. Maybe it's time to rethink that strategy.
Don't laugh, but Mark, after reading your post, I realized I have a Stereo Steel rig that hasn't seen daylight in several years. I think it deserves to be dusted off and reconfigured into a rack with effects again. I remember the last time I hooked it up to an old JBL and said "that sounds awesome". For whatever reason I can't remember why it got put away. Of course, I forget many things these days.
This is why the Forum can be great. Thanks guys!

Don Drummer · Post by **Don Drummer** » 10 Dec 2009 4:47 pm

Dave, with the fancy direct to the board system you use on the road, it's no wonder you forgot what "amps" sound like.

Don D.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 10 Dec 2009 4:55 pm

Alright class, today we also learned that malapropisms can be fun!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 10 Dec 2009 5:15 pm

Dave;

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 10 Dec 2009 5:24 pm

One Saturday night everything is great and the next you have a little bit of a cold with ears about half stopped up and nothing sound right.

Stephen Silver · Post by **Stephen Silver** » 10 Dec 2009 6:14 pm

I always seem to play better when my rig sounds good to my ears.....play more freely, more agressively, sweeter.

When it sounds bad, I just don't even want to hear it. The other thing that can throw me off for the whole night is anyone else I'm playing with being out of tune. That just cripples my playing.

SS

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 11 Dec 2009 4:08 am

Consistency is real important to me, being able to get the same tone at all different volumes. I do have a few practice rigs, but I've never understood the idea of owning a bunch of different sized amps for different sized venues. Unless cultivating randomness is part of your artistic vision.

Duane Dunard · Post by **Duane Dunard** » 11 Dec 2009 4:47 am

I totally agree with you guys,,, but my guitar being "in-tune" with itself is also a huge factor concerning tone. D.D.

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 11 Dec 2009 5:07 am

Tuning can be a whole other issue. I actually start feeling physically ill if I'm working with someone who's out of tune. It can very disorientating trying to correct your pitch when it's not actually you who is out of tune.
David Mason, good point. I do love consistency. My regular gigs are with in-ear monitors and running steel direct. I've been happy with that kind of set up for the last 9 years. I've also been happy with the amps I use for "open air" gigging situations until they both started acting up. But you are correct and I think I need to get rid of any amps I'm not happy with. The randomness thing is not working for me anymore.
The biggest factor in some of these amps is the EQ curve thats built in. It drives me crazy when I can't dial out a specific frequency that's offending my ears. Some have a bump around 800 or so, others seem too bright around 1200-1500 with no way to really dial it out. Again, the old Nashville and Vegas 400 I have are easy for me to dial up.
I have some time off, so I'll put the other amps through their paces and see what I come up with. When I'm done, you might see a few amps up for sale in "For Sale" section of the Forum.

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 11 Dec 2009 5:32 am

Barry Blackwood wrote:Absolutely, Dave. When tone sucks, playing is affected.

I agree !!
Hook

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 11 Dec 2009 7:37 am

Tuning can be a whole other issue. I actually start feeling physically ill I'm working with someone who's out of tune. It can very disorientating trying to correct your pitch when it's not actually you who is out of tune.

Correctamundo once again, Dave. Come to think of it, the last guitar player I worked with was out of tune alright, but I was already sick of him to begin with.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 11 Dec 2009 7:37 pm

It's a lot more "conducive to creativity" when the tone is there.

Sustain and two delays in the chain, stereo amps, and I'm amazed at the sound. I feel like I'm cheatin'.

Tommy R. Butler · Post by **Tommy R. Butler** » 11 Dec 2009 9:58 pm

This can be as much a mystery as the universe its self. Playing out has so many factors. Voltage, The Room, Weather, & even your attitude. Usually if the hair dont stand up on my neck during the down beat of the first song then I know its gonna be alotta work to get thru that nite. I just had surgery on my nose to correct a blocked air way and while that packing was in my head nothing sounded right or in tune. Most times when theres something outta tune in the band its the bass player. I have experimented more with amps this year than ever before and SERIOUSLY I cant explain why it has taken so many years to realize that I can hear TONE now and what GREAT TONE truly is ?? yeah people say man that sounds great or they think well my steel sounds great tonite but to find THAT TONE is incredible !!! Seriously Ken Fox can testify to this. I have a peavey Nashville 400 that I have achieved true TUBE TONE harmonics with!!!

I have also done more sessions this year than I have ever done if you put all of the past years together...
I have learned that they way I hear it is not necessarily the way the next person hears it. Case in point I record my steel and when I play it back it dont sound like what I heard when I was recording it.. Then the next time I recorded it ...IN the very same room it sounded better recorded than it did when I was recording it...

I guess TONE is like a Blessing...! Sometimes we are blessed and sometimes tone is out blessing someone else with its presence ??

I do agree with Dave... I start feeling physically ill sometimes when it just isnt there!! I play better when it decides to show up for sure!

Joe Goldmark · Post by **Joe Goldmark** » 11 Dec 2009 10:34 pm

Tone....sounds better with less people in the room.
tone....is a combination of what's coming out of your amp, and the sound you're hearing from reflections off of other objects in the room
tone....can be affected by how close your bandmates are standing near you
tone....often takes a few songs for you to get it
tone....totally depends on how close you are to the speaker cone
tone....in the studio will almost always sound better through the headphones than through the studio monitors
tone....if you're not getting the tone/sustain, it changes the way you play because you don't have the extra split second to create
tone....ultimately comes down to the right hand working with the right foot on the volume pedal and allowing the instrument to sing
tone....wish I had better!

Joe

Tommy Shown · Post by **Tommy Shown** » 11 Dec 2009 10:48 pm

I agree with most everything,everyone has said. But a good sound man mixing the sound helps too. One that knows what he is doing.Good tone is definitely a PLUS!
Tommy Shown
SMFTBL

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 12 Dec 2009 5:17 am

It is the absolute truth. If I am fighting my tone, I am fighting playing as well. It is amazing how sound affects our thoughts and playing. I wish that I had better tone on my steel. Maybe a few thousand would help.

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Good tone enables better playing, I think?

Good tone enables better playing, I think?

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