Are We Not Competative?

Bill Bassett · Post by **Bill Bassett** » 25 Oct 2009 12:13 pm

I don't know what brought this to mind, but I got to thinking about contests. Among musicians there are Olde Time Fiddle contests, Battle Of The Bands contests, Rock Star and Guitar Hero contests, songwriter contests, American Idle...oops I mean Idol, and so on and so on.

I have never heard of a Steel Guitar competition. We steel players get together every year in towns and cities all around the world for conventions and shows. But, I've never heard of a pickin' contest. Are there such things? Or, as I suspect, we respect each other too much to subject ourselves and each other to the humiliation of that whole thing.

I have always enjoyed a little healthy competition in sports or business, even a good social game of cards or Scrabble but I don't recall ever feeling the need to compete with another steel player. I guess I've always sort of felt like we were all on the same team and it seems conterproductive to compete amongst ourselves.

BDBassett
Rimrock AZ

Joe Naylor · Post by **Joe Naylor** » 25 Oct 2009 12:39 pm

Years ago they had contests - when I was 8 I won my age division over a BIG OLE 9 year old (he could not finish his song) - I played Steel Guitar Rag and Pan Handle Rag and Leon McAuliffe was the judge (playin his songs was a good move too) - but at 8 I did not know that - Oh yes, my teacher announced that my middle name was after Leon too.

Did someone stack the deck. I played my new double neck Rickenbacker that I had gotten for my birthday that day. It weighed 5 more pounds than I did.

I do not think a steel guitar contest would work with the older croud but for kids it was fun.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 25 Oct 2009 1:25 pm

A couple different thoughts. On the one hand, pressure from your peers to play up to their standards can be intimidating for a lot of people. Afraid they won't measure up. Competition can cause hurt feelings and distance among like minded spirits. Sort of like sports where winning is the only acceptable outcome.

OTOH, in a competition you know you have to perform as good or better than everyone else, so I guess that could lead to a level of competence that one otherwise might not reach.

I enjoy a friendly round robin jam where everyone is relaxed and having fun. I also enjoy the steel clubs where players of all levels can perform up to their ability without snobbery.

I don't think a steel guitar contest is for me though.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 25 Oct 2009 1:46 pm

My opinion for what it's worth. I am totally against contest in the steel community.

I think there is a few little contest scattered around, but I'd vote for no more. I've seen competitiveness take all the fun out of some good hobbies. Example: A bunch of guys have a common interest in old cars, so they start a car club to enjoy their hobby together and have some comradery among friends. Then someone says, "let's have a contest about who's got the best car". Long and short of it, it all turns into a money thing, and somebody with a big pocketbook can go out overnight and buy the nicest car to win the contest, and the guys that put all their work and heart and soul into restoring a car are left out.

With music, you've got to decide what makes a person a professional vs. amateur, what categories, age groups, etc... all of which people cannot agree on. It's a set up for a few people to be happy and a lot more being hurt over it.

I've been a judge a couple of times in bluegrass contest and I said no more. It's a good paying gig, but I don't need the money that bad. You always get in trouble, because someone thinks their kid should have won, (even though he's not very good) just because "you should have considered his age vs. the guys with a lot of years of experience", or someone came by the table and spoke to you during a performance and the band thinks you wern't paying attention to them. If you let the audience determine the winner, it's no longer a music contest, it's a showmanship contest.

I've also noticed that the players that can win contest are often not a player you'd want in a
band becuase they have no concept of backup, and working with other lead instruments/singers.

Who's the best player Lloyd or Buddy, or maybe John Hughey, or Dicky Overbey,..........ah you say, they're all different and good at certain things in their own ways. I think it's best to let well enough alone and leave it that way. Music is not about who's best, it's about being different and having your own sound. I vote to play and have fun and leave the contest to American Idol, Wide World of Wrestling, and oh yeah, the Superbowl, etc....

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 25 Oct 2009 3:09 pm

Okay, probably stepping on some toes. But, come on, the "competitive contest" thing is more about showmanship than musicianship IMHO. Have you ever been to one of these things? It's not about who plays the best, but who gets what they were doing across to the audience best etc. I don't mean "moves the audience" by playing great, but by acting pie-faced (hamming it up) and playing something that they will like. If that's what you want to see, more power to you. I will say that the Texas fiddle style competitions are a little more hard core than others. They have strict guidelines which they follow for judging (as far as I know).
I would think this would be more interesting to steel enthusiasts rather than regular players. Again, I apologize, but we should all concentrate on being the best player WE can be, not spend our time trying to figure out how great someone else is. YES, we, and I included, learn from the better players but I think we should leave it at that.
Peace out,
Dave

Jack Dougherty · Post by **Jack Dougherty** » 25 Oct 2009 3:31 pm

In a manor of speaking, steels shows are a form of contest as with jams sessions with out a blue ribbon.
For some of the reasons already given I would not be a big fan of such contests. If the winner (as in Joes case) was determined by who finished then....

The mystique of the steel is such that IMHO no clear winner could be determined. We all bring something different to the table so it would be a case of who prefers the green beans to the brussel sprouts. So as you can see, it would be hard to judge the menu.
By virtue of the complexity of the instrument, and the years it takes to be a true master I am inclined not to judge.
I feel safe in saying we may have forced a chuckle or two from or own attempts.

I'm content to leave the contests to the fiddle guys and gals and all others who long to play steel.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 25 Oct 2009 3:47 pm

If we play some good music, have fun, and enjoy one anothers company, we've all won. I don't think we need any judges to tell us that.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 25 Oct 2009 4:40 pm

Music is about cooperation, not competition.

I've never enjoyed guitar competitions, but I don't begrudge those who do.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 25 Oct 2009 4:58 pm

One of our(numerous) advantages is that having more than one steeler playing at a time is extremely rare,so the kind of "head-cutting" that goes on among six-stringers is nearly non-existent--between steelers anyway.That does not mean that we can't give a pushy guitarist a much-needed haircut on occasion.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 25 Oct 2009 7:58 pm

I've been told there were a lot of cutting sessions down on Broadway during the sixty's and 70's.I learned 1st hand it was real dangerous there during the D.J. conventions of that period.

I miss those days.

The 1st time I met Mr. Franklin:

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 25 Oct 2009 8:55 pm

. . so who's the fella
pickin' next to Paul?
Looks like it was in
the music store that
Little Roy ran.
~Russ

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 26 Oct 2009 3:03 am

Competative?????? I do not have to worry about that ........it seems that all are better than I am. I have had top name steel pickers show me any lick of theirs that I wanted...........trouble is it will take me 30 years to be able to do it. (If ever)
How would a "Competation" be judged??? Who would be the judge??? How would a "judge" be picked????

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 26 Oct 2009 7:01 am

Joe Naylor wrote: I do not think a steel guitar contest would work with the older croud but for kids it was fun.

I'll go mono a mono in the 4 to 8 group right now !!

bring'em on

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 26 Oct 2009 7:23 am

If you or I were in Nashville trying to make a living doing sessions or in Branson trying to land a good playing job in a show there we would certainly feel the competitiveness. The real judge in those cases is the guy doing the hiring. As far as playing shows and jams I would not be interested in turning them into a competition. That is like trying to determine who is the best artist (paintings). On a particular song this guy might smoke the rest of the players but on the next song he might get smoked. Some have speed, others play with emotion and some have both. Some sound wonderful on an arrangement they have spend a lot of hours working on and some are able to play on the fly. It depends on what you are looking for.
Jerry

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Oct 2009 7:42 am

Bill Bassett wrote:Are we not competative?

In a contest based on strictly playing ability, you would lose.

(Don't feel bad...I'd lose, too. As would most all of us.)

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 26 Oct 2009 2:44 pm

Donnie said: In a contest based on strictly playing ability, you would lose.

(Don't feel bad...I'd lose, too. As would most all of us[quote]

Donnie, I think that would depend on who was entered in the contest and who was judging.

Jerry

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 26 Oct 2009 3:37 pm

Jerry Overstreet wrote:...I enjoy a friendly round robin jam where everyone is relaxed and having fun. I also enjoy the steel clubs where players of all levels can perform up to their ability without snobbery.

Like a game of tennis, where no one is trying to win the point, but instead returning the ball as long as possible for a nice long volley. Take the competition out of the game, and its a whole new game.

Clete

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 26 Oct 2009 3:57 pm

I agree that a playing contest would suck, but I think there are other kinds of contests we steelers could enjoy that would be good clean fun.

For example, I think it would be great for some string manufacturer to sponsor, at ISGC or another big steel show, a string changing contest!
Here's how it works: your entrance fee is to buy a set of strings at a nice discounted price. You sit there in front of your steel, same as all other contestants. You're each given a pair of wire-cutters and a manual, plastic string-winder. At the sound of the pop-gun (or other facsimile), you change your 10 strings as quickly as possible and wind up the old ones into the new envelopes. The first one to finish, wins another 2 sets of strings free. Good fun, good promotion for the string company, and nobody gets hurt (except by the occasional snapped 011 string! LOL)

One could probably think of some other types of non-playing contests that would be fun for steelers to enjoy.

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 26 Oct 2009 4:05 pm

I Know !!! Lets have a spelling “B”

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 26 Oct 2009 4:12 pm

Oh, man. Better not go there...

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 26 Oct 2009 4:22 pm

I think that as steel players, we learn from our heroes, and when we play steel guitar conventions and shows, we play our steels and have fun with it, and, if we make mistakes, that's okay. We just need to have fun with our music and learn from our heroes and at steel shows we learn from the players we hear and we talk to our friends and learn more about the instrument we all love-the steel guitar.

Brett

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 26 Oct 2009 4:30 pm

Great attitude, Brett!

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 26 Oct 2009 5:11 pm

Guitar Center's Guitarmageddon and Blues contests have been open to ALL types of guitars, and having judged I think I've seen almost every type of guitar EXCEPT a pedal steel (Slide, yes; lap steel, yes; Melobar even).

I think, though, that a steel contest would be sort of discriminatory by its nature - depending on judges, you could end up with a really hot non-country picker (who also has great taste) being downgraded because he wasn't playing the "right" music. It's a tough call.

I remember being placed second in a large bluegrass contest because one judge downgraded us - for not wearing the same shirts!

When I've participated it's been as a favor to friends; same with judging. But overall, I think it's a bad idea.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 Oct 2009 5:43 pm

Jim Cohen wrote:One could probably think of some other types of non-playing contests that would be fun for steelers to enjoy.

Probably a "guess the guitar by its tone" contest wouldn't be a good idea, or would it?

First prize: one all-expense-paid visit to an audiologist, maybe?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 26 Oct 2009 6:16 pm

Herb Steiner wrote:Probably a "guess the guitar by its tone" contest wouldn't be a good idea, or would it?

Um, yeah... that is the most fun game around, isn't it?

The Steel Guitar Forum

Are We Not Competative?

Are We Not Competative?

Re: Are We Not Competative?

On second thought... no.

Re: On second thought... no.