"Hall Of Fame" Tommy White? Also posted under ISGC

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » 19 Sep 2009 8:55 am

Tommy is well deserving to be in
the HOF. If we wait much longer
he'll qualify for the Lifetime
Acheivement Award too.
Let get er done.

Rick

www.rickjohnsoncabs.com

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 19 Sep 2009 9:44 am

First, what b0b said is absolutely correct - anyone who nominates a player/builder/whatever to the HOF can post about it.

Second - posting about it probably makes not a bit of difference in what the committee does. It may influence some of the members who frequent the forum, but others don't seem to hang around - and there's no "popular vote" (which would have good and bad sides - if there WAS a popular vote there would likely be 50 argumentative threads after the convention, each blasting the world for not voting someone in.

Third - Most who fail to be inducted are nominated by someone who does NOT do a thorough, detailed, scholarly job of preparing the required documentation. The nomination rules are very clear (there was a lot of confusion about timing in recent years that resulted in some changes, if I recall correctly). And very often there is a lot of complaining about a player not being inducted - yet no one has ever undertaken the actual job of NOMINATING them! It's like the Lotto - you can't win if you don't buy a ticket. I'd suggest (having made the same mistake) that people do a LOT of behind-the-scenes asking around to find out if a nomination has ever been made before professing that it's almost criminal that (fill in the blank with a name) isn't in the HOF yet.

Last - Age is most definitely a factor. No one on the sitting committee will ever say it, and former committee members are unwilling (for good reason) to post about it, but it can be seen by what happened with Sneaky Pete's induction - even though he had been around longer than most inductees, his strong connections to the rock world and lack of participation in the "normal" country steel world (the ONLY steel world some older committee members appear to be part of) caused mistakes - a song he didn't play being played as Buddy Emmons was introduced to perform the ceremony, and a ridiculous misspelling on the original plaque (since corrected). Those things would not have happened had the "powers that be" be more well-versed in the steel world as a whole and some a bit younger. FWIW they were very, very apologetic about it - but it still seems to indicate an age factor, and probably a bit of a "style" factor as well. I'd venture to guess that there are quite a few that think Robert Randolph should be inducted, justified by his bringing the steel to a modern rock audience that never would otherwise SEE a steel guitar (note - this is not my opinion, just an observation) - but if nomination papers were presented to the HOF board I would not be surprised if there was at least one comment of "who the heck is Robert Randolph?".

There are also a lot of behind-the-scenes "steel politics" we will never know the details of.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 19 Sep 2009 9:58 am

Tom makes some good points, but I still have to ask this question: If I want to nominate someone, how do I find out if that person has already been nominated?

It's a lot of work to gather the documentation necessary for a proper nomination. I don't want to do that work if it has already been done by someone else. If I were to ask someone on the board, are they duty bound to silence? If so, how can I get an answer to my question?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 19 Sep 2009 10:03 am

Jim Sliff wrote:...if there WAS a popular vote there would likely be 50 argumentative threads after the convention, each blasting the world for not voting someone in.

And how would that be any different from now?

Kenny Martin · Post by **Kenny Martin** » 19 Sep 2009 10:40 am

Wow, all these paragraphs on the HOF takes a while to read!

IMHO isn't it called the "Steel Guitar Hall Of Fame"?
So i nominated in my opinion, one of the best in the world and that has spent his life promoting steel guitar and i might add, has done an awesome job!

Too me, you should have to be a player to get in and at a level that far exceeds most of them at playing and promoting! This is Tommy!

I disagree that Mandrell spent her life promoting steel guitar! Great TV personality but not dedicated to the intrument! Yea, i'll get a blast from that comment but its my opinion only!

Vince Gill has done more to put steel guitar in the fore front of music than most artist out there! You can see his passion for steel in video clips! So should he be inducted? You could see his respect for his steel player especially John Hughey!!!

Also, i'm not sure the age thing is part of it based on others that have been inducted!
Bottom line is, Tommy is over due and should be there already!

I'm very happy i took the lid off this can of worms!

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 19 Sep 2009 11:20 am

With the utmost respect to Tommy - a steel-player I consider to be almost without equal - I take issue with one of Kenny's points...

I'd say that he's spent his life earning a living, rather than 'promoting steel guitar'. A fine distinction, I know, but a relevant one, and no slight is intended!

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 19 Sep 2009 12:09 pm

I respect your words Roger. However. People like TW have spent a lifetime earning a living playing music on the instrument we all love. Just like Emmons, Chalker, Day, Etc. Some may argue they were out there promoting the guitar and I would say yes to that. But at the time all they were doing is making a living. When Shot put Buddy, Jimmy, and Dave Musgrave out there promoting the guitar they were making a living.(And were they promoting steel guitar or Sho-Bud) I don't think they were doing it strictly for the good of the future of the instrument.
Question 1.Is it possible their are two types of steelers? working steelers and steel promotors
Question 2. Should their be a HOF for each.
(Well that will open a whole new chapter in " I should have kept my big mouth shut" novel)
I've been on both sides of the fence so I understand both sides and their processes to some degree.
Just a thought...

Kenny Martin · Post by **Kenny Martin** » 19 Sep 2009 1:14 pm

Roger,

Everybody has a right to their opinion and i respect yours but i think anybody that knows Tommy White's history would disagree that he hasn't been promoting steel guitar!

All the steel shows he has played, the many hours spent helping others, all the studio cuts, being a satff player on many TV shows and i'm sure countless hours of hard work practicing! Yes, paying his house payment as well!! He was playing stuff in his mid teens that most of can't play after many years! Making a living is part of promoting!

When players sit arond and talk and or suggest a new player for someone to learn from, his name is in the top three!

Mandrell has done 1% of what he has so how does that figure? Becuase she had a pop tv show and played steel a few times? She didn't promote it! She made a living!

I will continue to pour the worms out of this can and happy to do so!
He should be inducted this coming year without question!

Ron Scott · Post by **Ron Scott** » 19 Sep 2009 1:26 pm

I also agree that Mandrell in my unwanted opinion had not done anymore than Tommy or the other great steel players who should be in the HOF...RS

Tom Bradshaw · Post by **Tom Bradshaw** » 19 Sep 2009 1:33 pm

Bob asked if he could find out if some person had already been nominated. Ask the person you want to nominate, assuming the person is still alive. If they are deceased, ask Scotty. I can’t feature anyone being nominated and not be aware of it. If they have been nominated, it would be strange for someone to simply send in the documentation and not first contact that person. I’ve never nominated anyone without interviewing them. Most often, and as was the case with Tommy White, they are very cooperative, providing information regarding any and everything I have asked them. And, no nominee has ever asked me to nominate them. Typically, my nominees have been very uncomfortable talking about themselves. I usually have to drag the information out of them.

In Tommy’s case, I knew he had never been nominated and I wanted to get him in the pipeline. I had no belief that Tommy would be inducted right away. I just wanted to document what he had accomplished up until then (July 2008). Tommy is now 49 years old. He has many more years ahead of him for advancing the steel guitar. What is the need to rush his induction? I don’t think he’s lost any sleep over it. If about 5 years pass and he still hasn’t been inducted, I’ll probably do an update and ask the Board to recognize his continued contributions to the instrument. He will be 54 then, and still be making great contributions to the instrument. I did updates on my nominations of Bobby Black and Bud Carter. Back when I was a Board member I saw others do updates on their nominees.

But back to Bob’s question. If Scotty is reluctant to reveal whether someone has been nominated, he would be well within his right to make no comment unless the nominee gave permission for such release. And as an aside, Scotty recently advised me that there are 23 formal nomination documents on file with the Convention Board. More will likely be received between now and next August 1st (the deadline for accepting nominations for inductions at the 2011 Convention). An additional 10 nomination letters are on file. They lack documentation, but are still listed on the Board’s meeting agenda for consideration at next year’s meeting. Unless the Board chooses to remove any name from future consideration (a rare happening), all past nominees will remain for review from year to year.

Other Forumite’s concerns:
For the concern about whether comments on the Forum are meaningful to the HOF Board members. My answer, most definitely. Just because they don’t respond doesn’t mean they didn’t read what is said here. They may disagree with the positions presented by the poster. The are human and surely appreciate praise more than condemnation. I know one thing; they aren’t intimidated by anything that is said here.

Regarding publication of nomination documents, there is no rule against it. I explained my concerns in my previous post here. I’m currently asking some inductees if they would consent to having their nomination documents posted. If they agree, I’ll add them to this topic in a subsequent post.

To Dirk B.: Joe Wright’s name is not among the 33 pending nominees for HOF consideration. I’d suggest that you take a look at the nomination documents I will publish here later on, then decide if you want to put the work into writing a nomination letter. Everyone on the Board probably knows Joe, but they need to know the kind of information typically contained in the formal nomination letters I’ll post later.

To Scott Henderson: Bruce Bouton has not been nominated. To be considered for HOF induction, a formal nomination must be submitted to Scotty for presenting to the Board. The better the documentation, the better chance a nominee has in being inducted. Also, promoting the steel guitar is one of the components of “advancing” the instrument. Promoting one’s self probably wouldn’t prompt the Board to give much credit to a nominee’s qualifications. Making a living by playing is a given. Everyone expects to be paid for their time. I enjoy your posts.

To Rick Johnson: The HOF award is a “Lifetime Achievement Award”. It just happens to be called the “Steel Guitar Hall of Fame” award.

To Jim Sliff: I commend you for a very intelligent post. You said things better than I could.

To Kenny Martin: I respect your opinion and appreciate your point of view. I just disagree. Being a “monster” player is great, but if that player does nothing to advance the steel guitar by his gifted playing, he’s not appropriate for HOF consideration. It should be noted that the plaque says “Steel Guitar Hall of Fame”. It doesn’t say “Steel Guitar Player’s Hall of Fame. Let me tell you, there are some “monster” players on this planet. They come out for brief moments at regional jams and shows, then “retire” back to their bedrooms and, in my perspective, play for their self-enjoyment (and I don't fault them for that). They are welcome to do that, but in my opinion they haven't advanced the instrument until they do more. I agree that Tommy White is a “monster player”, but he chose to play in innumerable venues besides his bedroom.

To conclude, if questions are posed that I can answer without violating the privacy of the Board or any past or future HOF member, I’ll do my best to do so. ...Tom

Kenny Martin · Post by **Kenny Martin** » 19 Sep 2009 4:41 pm

I appreciate all you have said Tom and i don't disagree that "Monster" players come out and go away!

I agree that on the plaque it says "Steel Guitar Hall Of Fame" but what is a steel guitar without the player and the player promoting the art of playing?

It becomes a material thing that has no meaning without the player! I get the sense from what you say that its all about the guitar but my opinion is the guitar is nothing without the gifted player behind it!

So if couldn't hit a lick on a steel guitar but spend my life telling everybody about it and only promoting it then i guess i could be considered for the "Steel Guitar Hall Of Fame right?

No disrespect but that doesn't fly in my book but i'm also not a board member!

In my opinion its all about the player, player promotion of steel, and also having the talent that is above 99% obove any other player! Tommy has all these qualities and more along with the fact that he has spent his life dedicated to "STEEL GUITAR"!

I know i'm a nobody and probably one of those bedroom players you are talking about but i have played since i was 9 and i just turned 50! I have watched and followed Tommy along with Emmons and Green, all my life and in the steel world, as i have said early, one of the top three that most people know because of hia promotion!

Scotty emailed me and as i said before, has accepted my nomination so i will continue to pour out the worms in this can!!!

I will continue the task at hand!
thx
km

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 19 Sep 2009 4:55 pm

This probably doesn't need saying, but I'd like to clarify my remark....

I meant to say that I suspect he's spent most of his life working at, and perfecting, his considerable skills. It doesn't hurt that he's clearly a born musician - one of the greats - but nothing comes without hard work. That hard work ethic is fueled by his desire to be the best he can be.

The 'promotion' of the steel guitar is nothing more than a by-product of the intense effort that is required to master his instrument.

This is all just semantics - feel free to gloss over my ramblings....

Tom Bradshaw · Post by **Tom Bradshaw** » 19 Sep 2009 5:13 pm

Kenny: I can't see where you and I are at odds on this. If I didn't think Tommy deserved to be in the HOF, I would never have done the work required to nominate him. I just didn't nominate him because he is a "monster player". I'll admit that was a plus, but I nominated him by cobbling together 3,672 words that took 7 text pages to hold. Most of those words didn't refer to his playing. They referred to his accomplishments, all of which in my estimation advanced the steel guitar.

If you and I have a difference of opinion, perhaps it concerns when his induction will occur, soon vs. later or maybe never. I don’t have control over that outcome. In my mind he is already in the HOF, since I'm confident that I justified his presence there. If he is never officially made a member of the Hall, I still know I did all I could to achieve the end I sought and an end I'm confident he deserves. It is now in the hands of others to decide.

Thanks for replying. ...Tom

Kenny Martin · Post by **Kenny Martin** » 19 Sep 2009 5:30 pm

Tom,

We are not at odds at all and sometimes while on my soap box i can write faster than i think!
I know the hard work you have done so i apologize if it came across that way! Tommy and i have talked about it!

I agree he is already there and yes, sooner than later is how i feel! That is the difference but i respect all you do! I don't play kiss up to anyone so believe me when i say how much i appreciate what you have already done!

I just totally disagree with the latest inductee when Tommy along with a few others, has done so much more for Steel Guitar! Not only as a player but one that truly carries integrity and a unquestionable friendship to other players and the public!

Thanks again!
km

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 19 Sep 2009 6:17 pm

It might be simpler to just put Barbara in again.

Elizabeth West · Post by **Elizabeth West** » 19 Sep 2009 8:16 pm

How many steel players outside their own Steel organizatios honestly are promoting the instrument. How many street Joe's can answer the question who is{ Mr Buddy... } when asked. are, what is a pedal steel guitar. So, dose it really matter who's in are not in the HOF.
All Steel players have their own idol players. However not one has achieve making this instrument familiar to the every day Joe it's only my opinion

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 20 Sep 2009 2:59 am

In answer to those who are asking the question - "What has Barbara Mandrell done to promote steel guitar?" - it is this. She has raised its profile to the masses.

In the UK we used to get the Barbara Mandrell Show, and it was the first time for millions of people that they would see the instrument close up and hear what it was capable of. Barbara may not be as good a player as someone burning it up in a small out of the way club or bar, but she has done more than most in broadening its awareness world-wide. She is also more technically proficient than some of the other previous inductees, whose inductions were less controversial.

Kenny Martin · Post by **Kenny Martin** » 20 Sep 2009 5:30 am

I disagree with you Ken but that's what this world is about!

Mandrell shows that were broadcast over there was to continue to promote her not steel guitar!

Here in the US almost every show you watched that was a country show, featured steel guitar! Hee Haw was a primary show and many steel players played on that show! Then Nashville Now and many other shows on cable continued to promote it! Ralph Emory always made a point to feature the steel player with Tommy White, Larry Sasser and many others!

They all had to make a living but Tommy, as i said earlier, has played steel shows since 1967 which promotes the instrument by displaying how awesome the steel can be played which drives new players to buy steels, books, tabs and come to the show in St. Louis!

If no big names came to St. Louis and other steel shows i wonder if the crowd would fall off! I went this year because Doug Jernigan was there and the fact i had never been!

This level of player promotes steel guitar based on there reputation in the industry alone!
So what i'm saying is once you get to that level you are promoting steel guitar to the fullest!

I have enever bought a Mandrell album because of her steel playing! I have bought a few because the singer in the band wanting to learn one of her songs!

Tons of material is bought because of the player and the fact that they show up from busy schedules to be at the St. Louis, show which draws the crowd!

If i was featured as a player nobody would come other than a few friends but put Tommy White on the head line and it packs the place!
That's promoting the instrument!!!

Thanks and i'll continue to pour the worms out of this can for a long time!

John P. Phillips · Post by **John P. Phillips** » 20 Sep 2009 5:59 am

I was tempted to enter this diatribe but wisdom tells me to keep my mouth shut ! $:\$

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 20 Sep 2009 6:40 am

I agree with Ken about Barbara and his statements. I also agree Tommy should have already gone in the HOF along with Sonny Garrish, Rusty Young, Larry Sasser, Russ Hicks, Dan Dugmore, Bruce Bouton and the list goes on......

They've already picked 2010, should be interesting. Congrat's to Barbara!

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 20 Sep 2009 6:49 am

The thread is about Tommy White. He has achieved no less than many others who have been inducted, and I'm sure that his time will come.

Kenny - I won't fall out with you over your views about Ms Mandrell's inclusion, but while she is not primarily known as a steel guitarist, nevertheless she is a very good player. She happens to be a multi-talented person who is good at singing and playing a number of instruments. Perhaps if she had just concentrated on this one area, she may have had more kudos with you.

She would not be at the top of my personal list for induction at this moment in time - Messrs Seymour, Garrish and White are there - but I would not disagree with those who have chosen her.

Kenny Martin · Post by **Kenny Martin** » 20 Sep 2009 8:06 am

Not falling out at all Ken! It is about Tommy White and that's why i open this can of worms as we say!

The issue for me is that in my opinion, Tommy is and always will be so far above Mandrell in promoting and playing steel and should have be inducted before this inductee! Not saying she shouldn't at all!

So no worries man!

Kenny Martin · Post by **Kenny Martin** » 20 Sep 2009 11:27 am

I agree with you on the list of names you gave Theresa!

Thanks for the input!

km

Kenny Martin · Post by **Kenny Martin** » 20 Sep 2009 4:01 pm

Sorry guys but this needs to on top but i think it has helped alot! Tommy deserves our support on this!

thx
km

Bruce Bouton · Post by **Bruce Bouton** » 20 Sep 2009 5:33 pm

I'm humbled that my name is even mentioned with all of these great steel players but I go back to my original post. Why not have three or four get into the HOF each year. That's what the CMA , The Rock and Roll, and Musicians hall of fames all do. Rusty Young has done as much as anyone to promote the Steel Guitar . Sonny Garrish has had an amazing career as a studio musician. Joe Wright, Tommy White the list goes on and on. Many people would never have heard Steel Guitar if Dugmore hadn't played Blue Bayou.
I say spread the love and step it up.

The Steel Guitar Forum

"Hall Of Fame" Tommy White? Also posted under ISGC

Tommy "Monster Player" White