Gram Parsons

[Donny Hinson]

It really irritates me, that after D. Hinson's and my last post noone chimed in, to say anything in defense of Gram Parsons' voice and his achievements for Country Music.

That's because I don't think of him as doing much for country music. Okay, he did a few country songs. So did Ray Charles and Dean Martin. Most musicians and singers classify him as "country rock", and so do most writers on the subject. Actually, I think his biggest problem was he never did find himself. His styles and songs were all over the map. Here's the stuff I remember: "Luxury Liner" (Int'l Sub) has more than a little of the sound of the Monkees "Last Train To Clarksville". "Brass Buttons" was almost a dead-ringer for the schmaltzy-smooth '70s country sounds of Mac Davis or Bobby Goldsboro. "Christine's Tune" positively reeks of early Everly Brothers, and Pete's tone really shines on this one. "Do You Know How It Feels" has the semi-grass twang of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. "Wheels" has a bluesy sound with a tinge of rock. "Colorado" was simply too close to "Stairway To Heaven" for me to think of it as anything but '70s rock (though it's one of his better vocal performances). But my favorite is still "Hot Burrito #2", where his cracking voice and Pete's rolling style provide a unique combination. Admittedly, it was Pete's steel work that got my attention early on. When that was gone, I lost interest in Gram, for the most part.

I know a lot of people say they liked him, but they must have been less than enthusiastic about buying his stuff (back then, anyways). Neither as the hub of the FBB, nor when he was recording under his own name, did he ever get a song in the top 100. If he had millions of fans back then, they were either too broke to buy his stuff, or too stoned to know where to find it.

Yeah, had he lived, his voice probably would have improved, and he might have stayed closer to country music. But I still don't see him as a major force, either in the real (past) country music world, or the hypothetical "what would'a been" one. Very few artists were able to carry a career successfully through the '70s and up through the '80s. Music was changing...fast.

[Joachim Kettner]

Donny Hinson wrote

I think his biggest problem was he never did find himself. His styles and songs were all over the map.

I don't think of this is a problem, it rather shows his versatility. The songs you have mentioned are good examples.
BTW "Colorado" was sung by Rick Roberts.

Very few artists were able to maintain a career through
the 70's and the 80's
I agree. Chris Hillman moved away from country, but returned in the 80's with the Desert Rose Band. Along came Dwight Yoakam and many more. I'm sure G.P. had a big influence on them.

[Donny Hinson]

BTW "Colorado" was sung by Rick Roberts.

Gee, now I know why I thought it was Gram's best effort. Wasn't Rick in the group "Firefall" too?

At any rate, showing versatility is a good thing...after you're established. It demonstrates that you didn't make it as a "one-trick-pony". But when singers are starting out, they need something to anchor their spot among the competition, an identifiable sound to build a fan base through consistency. How many times have we heard the comment..."I liked their first album, but then their style (or sound) changed, and I didn't care for them anymore"

That's what happens when you don't maintain a center.

[George Kovolenko]

Even though I had heard of him, my first exposure to Gram was in 1972 or 1973 in New York City, at a place called Upstairs at the Downstairs... located in the 2nd floor of Max's Kansas City. It was also my first exposure to Emmy Lou who continues to be one of my all time favorites today. The show was very simple, and the atmoshpere was unbelievable, Gram with only an accoustic guitar, and Emmy Lou sitting next to him. The show was magical. The chemestry between the two was remarkable, To this very day I can still picture them performing. So much so that even though I was currently playing around NYC in a couple of rocker bands, including one glitter band, I quit both, moved to Valley Forge, PA and switched to country folk and rock.

I agree with some of the posts, that Gram didn't have the best voice in the business, but it was unique, at times almost haunting. When you hear him on a record, there is no mistaking who it is. Many top performers don't neccessarily have the best voice, aren't necessarily the best musicians. etc, but they do have the abilty to connect to their audience in a special way, and that night, he and Emmy connected. (at least for me because it is so vivid in my memory 37 years later).

As a foot note, years later, we moved to Virginia and my son went to school with Emmy Lou's neice and Emmy sang at the graduation ceremony.

[Geoff Cline]

I was going to just "lurk" on this thread, but I need to add something. First a disclaimer, I am blessed to have Chris Hillman, Herb Pederson and others who were very close to GP as friends...and I am a big fan of GP, FBB, etc. I've been told from folks that were there (a lot) that when Gram had it together he could put down a vocal that would make everyone in the room stop and shake their heads 'cause it was THAT good. Many of the songs he wrote, solo, with Chris and others have stood the test of years and are IMHO great.

What would have happened? As has been said, no one knows for sure, but most likely is he would've died way too young because he was an addict and didn't have the strength to fight it.

[Dave Harmonson]

I don't want to get into arguing over whether Gram was a great singer or not. I think that it's a matter of taste and completely subjective. Most of my favorite singers many might not consider to be a great vocalist. For my taste it's more about feeling and emotion. Levon Helm is one of my all time favorites and there are many who don't think he's all that great of a singer. There are also many technically great vocalists who I don't really care to listen to because for me they just don't hit me in the heart so to speak. I was one of those who was able to find Gram's recordings and they had a big impact on me. The GP and Grievous Angel albums were played by tremendous players and even if there are a few "imperfections" in the vocals the songs all reach me. I think Gram sang with a ton of heart and soul.
Donny, as far as the playing on Sweetheart of the Rodeo, I certainly don't think Clarence White or John Hartford were subpar. Clarence's guitar with LLoyd Green on One Hundred Years from This Day is one of my all time favorite guitar tracks. Gram did not end up singing lead vocals on Sweetheart because of contract issues from his ISB days. They have reissued it on CD with Gram's vocals and I much prefer his to Roger's or Chris Hillman's.
As for the Byrds 'mockng' Country Music with SWOTR, I think Roger and all of them were very serious about making a truely authentic Country record and that's why they were really hurt by the lack of acceptance they got from the Nashville establishment. It seems to me it was more "Country" than many of the hits from the same era.
Bottom line is I don't see the point in arguing over whether he had talent or whatever. If you liked him fine if not, to each his own. That's what makes the world go round.

[Cliff Kane]

I've always thought of Gram and the FBB as part of the California country rock genre, along with NRPS, Commander Cody, etc. I love that stuff, and I grew up on as a kid in northern California listening to KFAT and going to NRPS and Commander Cody shows. Unfortunately I never got to see Gram. It's kind of country, but not what I would call traditional or pure like I think of Merle, George, etc. I don't know but I think GP really admired and loved the true country, yet he was operating in the L.A. rock scene. I think he should have or would have moved to Nashville or Texas and gotten out of the rock thing if he wanted to do country, but I think he wanted be a Rolling Stone as much a country singer. I think one of the best things about what he did was being a gateway artist for introducing rock and roll people to country music. Most of the people that I talk to who are nuts about him came to him via the Stones or through the resonance he has in the "alt. country" scene. It doesn't seem that country fans come to Gram and discover rock and roll, but rather rock and roll people come to Gram and discover country music. I think rock and roll needs country more than country needs rock and roll. Anyway, he made a few good records when he was around here.

[Bill Hatcher]

Seems that guys like Parsons have one foot in the past and the other foot on a slippery slope. That is what makes him interesting to me. You can hear in his song selections and his style that he listened to to and must have really admired the real country styles/artists that his audience probably did not even know. So he is presenting them with his own brand of what he loves. He can't ever have the satisfaction of being as real as say the Everly Brothers or the Louvins and he is so mired in their realness that his reality must have always been a commercial chore to him. The Nudie suits and such are nothing new....except to his audience. The duets with Emmylou...nothing really new and very Everly sounding, but to his audience they were new.

All in all I think that he just represented the main focus of the young musicians at the time who were using a mix of country/rock/folk whatever and had an audience that was mostly represented by the typical cyclical pop audience who latch on to something for a while and then jump off in a few years for something else.

As with most esoteric artists, he fit into his time niche very well, had a lore about him, and in the present he gets judged more so by his personal downfall as much as his music.

If all he did was be the catalyst for the introduction of harder country sounds to a more rock/pop commercial audience then he has a place in the pop pecking order.

His singing voice was his own..why judge that? He probably got to romp between the sheets with a young Emmy Lou Harris......

[Pete Burak]

Had he lived, I guess there's a chance he might have a similar story to this player who had a brush with the Rolling Stones:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... y-car.html

[Joachim Kettner]

Bill Hatcher, regarding your post one could also argue, that the Everly Brothrs were not real, because they borrowed from the Louvin Brothers, or the Beatles were influenced by the Everlys. It's the things they brought in on their own, what made them so unique. The same with Gram Parsons.

[Kevin Hatton]

Pete, thats an amazing article, and people think they want to be stars. There is no doubt that Parsons had "Vision". He also had a charisma about him that attracted creative people. I agree on the talent thing, but for commercial success in those days the labels wanted polish. He influenced alot of us.

[Chip Fossa]

It sure is interesting. I am and always have been a FBB/Gram Parsons fan since day one ("Gilded Palace Of Sin").

Funny how artists with 'crummy' voices and those with 'voices of satin & silk' all seem to have FANS, and even "make a living" at singing. Successful.

I want a singer to talk to me. The quality of their voice is just a small part of the bigger picture; especially if they are songwriters, too.

Like ole' Bobby Dylan. No one sings a Bob Dylan song, with the impact and emotion, like ole' Bob does. Maybe I'm blind-sided here, but I still go back and listen to EARLY Dylan; with that VOICE; "One Too Many Mornings"; "Ballad Of Hollis Brown"; "Bob Dylan's Dream"; "Don't Think Twice"; on and on.

Artists take what God has dealt them and they run with it; and try to do the best they can.

You can't really do anything about a 'crummy' or 'so-so' voice you were born with.

But you can learn to create some kind of aura and mysticism with YOUR unique voice. I think.

I want to hear great lyrics, melody, and a believable delivery. The timbre of your voice really doesn't matter much (to me) if the delivery, lyrics, and melody knock the ball out of the park.

Gram did it for me. (oh yeah, Dylan too)

[Glen Derksen]

Yes, if only he had gotten straight and got his act together. These are my guesses:

1. He might have risen above the drug addiction and become a superstar and continued to be a hero even after his popularity had died down a little.

2.He might have become a superstar, and after so many years of success, settled down to a normal, happy life with a wife and kids.

3. He might have straightened up and had a struggle piecing back together a ruined career because of the excesses, but still having moderate success in the end, a la Johnny Roduigez.

We can only wish he had survived and made to the top.

[chris ivey]

the era of gram for me and my friends was a great one. it brought country music closer to our neighborhood...we already liked the country sound of steels fiddles and harmony, but this got more of our age group involved. granted gram 'bought' his way into the party..and out..but he and others like dillard and clark, other LA country, folk and bluegrass pickers,and folksinger/songwriters adding steel guitar..even 'the dead'..actually produced more traditional country than what is being sold in general from nashville today.

funny..in the seventies it was hard to find others who had heard of gram. now everybody seems to know of him...and he seems to be a great 'new' (!) inspiration to young alt country rockers.

also, for anyone thinking he brought country and rock together...ha...all of us (steel players)..who played regularly in clubs and bars...have mixed the genres from day one, and never gave it a second thought.

[Bill Hatcher]

Bill Hatcher, regarding your post one could also argue, that the Everly Brothrs were not real, because they borrowed from the Louvin Brothers, or the Beatles were influenced by the Everlys. It's the things they brought in on their own, what made them so unique. The same with Gram Parsons.

You could argue that if you placed the development of Parsons on the same level as the Beatles.....you are really not equating them are you?

[Joachim Kettner]

I am only saying that the Beatles were influenced by the Everly Brothers, (and also by other musical styles). I stated this as an argument against your point of saying Gram Parsons was not as real as the examples of artists you have mentioned. I think I can say that without necesseraliy equating him to the Beatles. Why should I want to do this?

[Robin Archer]

One of the greatest things about Gram Parsons was Emmylou Harris...

[Pete Burak]

My real guess is that he would be on tours similar that of NRPS, Pure Prairie League, Poco, and Flying Burritos, all of whome have toured (with various line-up changes) in the 90's/2000's.
I don't think he would have established an Eagles level of stardome, unless of course he would have went on to become an "Eagle" at some point, which would have been entirely possible, I guess.

[Bill Hatcher]

I am only saying that the Beatles were influenced by the Everly Brothers, (and also by other musical styles). I stated this as an argument against your point of saying Gram Parsons was not as real as the examples of artists you have mentioned. I think I can say that without necesseraliy equating him to the Beatles. Why should I want to do this?

Parsons never broke away from his influences. They seemed to be too much of what he was.

You see the Beatles in their leathers and then doing Chuck Berry covers and in a few short years they do Pepper. A total break and a new reality for them that separates them from the influences.

[Joachim Kettner]

Gilded Palace Of Sin was in a lot of ways different to what Graham Parsons had done before, not so much the country songs, but the ballad Hot Burrito #1 and the rocker Hot Burrito #2. But even the country songs had a sound, that was rather unique for that time.
Did the Beatles record their Sgt.Pepper's record, without being influenced by the British music hall tradition or R+R? I don't think so.

[Bill Hatcher]

Did the Beatles record their Sgt.Pepper's record, without being influenced by the British music hall tradition or R+R? I don't think so.

I am talking about making a total break from the influences. Nothing on Pepper sounds like Chuck Berry or Lonnie Donnegan. Finished with this..not getting anywhere.

[Jason Odd]

I would think that suggestions that some of Gram's material "His styles and songs were all over the map," would be fairly evident that, is exactly what made country-rock.. a genre.

some folks came from jug band backgrounds, bluegrass, folk, psyche, garage, folk-rock, the troubador tradition, baroque-pop, sunshine-pop, and so on.

Personally I don't give two sh!ts as to what GP thought about the Eagles, I may also point out that he absolutely had no interest in Wynn Stewart either.
Most of Gram's contemporaries are mystified to what his actual talents are charms were, to actually have become this massive cult-figure, when in the actual timeline of things, he was a mid-range player.

I have no doubt to his actual contribution as a key founder of the country-rock genre, and as the years have moved on, the alt-country and post-punk crowd have found someone who sits between good ol' boy country and what the bulk of mainstream charting country-rock sounded like between 1969-1972 (think POCO), before the Eagles, Outlaw Country and the Cosmic Cowboy thing took off. (and not quite in that order).

Had Gram not overdosed in 1973, he might have in 1974. Or, more likely he'd be like dozens of others who cut country-rock solo albums in the 70s.
Mostly forgotten and playing small clubs and cutting his own self-released CDs to sell to his fan base and CDBaby.

[Pete Burak]

Personally I don't give two sh!ts as to what GP thought about the Eagles,

Why such a strong wording?
Were the Eagles even a group in GP's lifetime?

[Chris LeDrew]

Apparently, Gram went o the grave cursing the Eagles as derivative slop. I don't agree, but hey.

Actually, you can hear a lot of Gram in Glenn Frey's vocal, especially early on. Check out "Lying Eyes" and "Peaceful Easy Feeling" for examples. That little falling note Gram used to do at the end of a vocal line - it's all over the place on Frey's early vocals.

[Jason Odd]

There's about ten interviews that exist, or say ten main interviews from 1968 to 1973, and they all are plundered time and time again for the same quotes, picked over for the same info again, and again.

I do believe it was one time that Gram dissed the Eagles as plastic dry-f... music, well, I'd finish that sentence, but y'know, strong language and that, tut, tut.

So, it's forever wrote in GP lore that Gram hated the Eagles, or disliked, the Eagles, or disapproved of the Eagles, however oe might want to translate those comments.

So, hw he was doing on one day, will be how he's recalled forever. Had he lived, or done another interview, he might have tempered those thoughts, or elaborated more (actually, he did a bit at the time, but not much). Sour grapes?.. maybe

Note, that while Gram was trying to score a deal with Warner Bros. Records, kind of trying to get in their good books after ducking out from a deal with them back in '68 for A&M, the Eagles were on one of Warner's related labels, making an absolute killing.

Now, my dramatic point earlier is simple. Gram couldn't write in and smooth it over later on, he was dead.
He might have also gained a love of Wynn Stewart, but when he did an interview back in 1969 for a Seattle based writer, Chris Hillman gushed on about Wynn Stewart, while Gram, the great tastemaker who turned a bunch of hippies on to country, admitted he didn't know anything about Wynn.

So, following the same train of thought as someone noting he hated the Eagles .. he was also ignorant of Wynn Stewart, the guy who helped shape the sound of Merle Haggad and Buck Owens. Two artists he loved.

The point of all this?

We can speculate all we want about GP, but the reality is that what we know is the same tired points hashed, and re-hashed over and over again.
That's out starting point, and if that is shaky to begin with, we really have no idea.

We can speculate what his contemporaries were doing, and did, for a comparision, and that's about as close as we'll get.
We keep trying to sketch a man from his ghost, and I suppose we shall keep doing so.

On a slightyl different tack, I see that there's discussion about the first Burritos record, and how different it was. I'd say that the fact that Chris Ethridge a soul-R&B bass player, plus a former R&B rocker like Gram in a band, would lend itself to the R&B side of things. Not to mention that the bands and folk they hung with were not fellow country-rockers, at least not in the early days of the band.

The tightest group they seem to be bound up with was the Okie mafia, the Delaney & Bonnie crowd, and the Taj Mahal Band with Chuck Blackwell and Jessie Ed Davis.
The Taj Mahal Band's 1969 LP (the electric band part of the 2 LP set) was a great take of country-blues and blues, the did "Six Days On The Road" as a country-blues groover, not unlike the Burritos take of soul songs on their debut LP. While Delaney & Bonnie were the gosepl-rock, while soul side of the mix. They also did "Dark End Of The Street" on their 1969 album for Elektra.
I think Gilded Palace Of Sin makes a lot more sense when you think of the Burritos playing country clubs, the Valley rock joints and folk venues in '69, with that same crowd.