PP vs Lagrande

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 2 Sep 2009 4:18 am

Basic sound or voice.

Detuning/tuning issues.

Pedal/knee lever action.

I have a new steeler looking at the PP's and a LII, any comments would be great.

Larry Behm

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 2 Sep 2009 5:41 am

Given the cat is a new player, I would suggest the Legrande. I own both and love them for different reasons, but I think that you have to grow into the PP to fully appreciate it. Mind you, if it's set up well and he don't monkey with it, it would work great too but I don't think he'd appreciate it till he was down the pike a bit.

Billy McCombs · Post by **Billy McCombs** » 2 Sep 2009 9:07 am

John how close would you say the Legrande sound is to the PP?

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 2 Sep 2009 9:30 am

Playing them at a Convention a few years back I thought the S10 E9 LeGrandes sounded noteably sweeter, tone wise, than the D10's, for your basic E9 playing.

J Fletcher · Post by **J Fletcher** » 2 Sep 2009 10:13 am

I have both, and would have no hesitation recommending a LeGrande. Especially for a new steeler.My LeGrande plays great, doesn't have tuning issues, and sounds great..Jerry

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 2 Sep 2009 10:34 am

I have experienced "tone envy" listening to both. For a new player, I'd recommend the Lagrande as it is easier to work on and is less likely to have mechanical problems from the previous owner.

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 2 Sep 2009 10:55 am

Billy: close

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 2 Sep 2009 8:37 pm

I played a Legrande II for a couple of years, and have done side-by-side comparisons with my '75 p/p. They were pretty close soundwise, the p/p being a tiny bit sweeter, growlier and longer sustaining. But the Legrande is so much easier to work on – of these two, it's the ONLY choice for a beginner IMO.

I found the vertical knee lever on the Legrande very difficult and uncomfortable to use, and have seen others making the same comment. Worth checking out befpre buying.

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 2 Sep 2009 9:03 pm

The biggest problem with the push-pull is it takes away all your excuses for poor tone.

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 2 Sep 2009 9:48 pm

How could You Go Wrong? They Are Both Great Guitars and Sound Like a Emmons!

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 3 Sep 2009 12:21 am

Larry, you know how I feel - once you experience the push-pull tone for yourself, there's no going back! But, I have never played a LeGrande. Doug Jones's sure sounds good.

Tore Blestrud · Post by **Tore Blestrud** » 3 Sep 2009 1:36 am

I have a LeGrandeII and a P/P.
For a new steeler I would recommend the LeGrande for the reasons mentioned by others here. To me the P/P sounds better than any other steel I have ever heard, but I would not recommend it as a starters guitar.

Charles Pompe · Post by **Charles Pompe** » 3 Sep 2009 4:24 am

I started on a P/P. LOVED the tone, HATED the tuning arrangement. For the Beginner....LG II.
Charlie

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 3 Sep 2009 4:56 am

i was a beginner who started on a PP - then i got a D10 LLII - well, the PP stays in the case now - imo, for a beginner, there is no doubt the LLII is preferred, HOWEVER, i'm glad i did learn on a PP cause when you do finally sit down to a LLII, it almost plays itself its so smooth. the tone is very close, an emmons sound for sure, the LLII is a bit more "modern" sounding, smoother without the growl - the LLII works better with sound shaping, the PP is better left alone with minimal stuff in the signal chain - in other words, the PP could stand fine on its own, the LL was at its best with some minimal effects help.
it depends on the instrument, i never had any problems with my PP, it was a '66 so the tone was huge and growled - but a beginner may want to experiment with a different copedant eventually and hands down the LLII wins there. a PP is more of a set it up right and leave it alone system.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 3 Sep 2009 7:15 am

I wouldn't want anyone reading this topic to get the impression that the Emmons LaGrande II is a "beginner's instrument". Many professionals play them and prefer them over the original push/pull models.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 3 Sep 2009 8:34 am

Depends on how critical and demamding one is bOb,
I have tried for years to get the LeGrande to work for me, it doesen't. I have tried over 15 of them since 1981. No way can it come close. Feel and tone and holding tune is the P-Ps game. Adjust it right one time and leave it alone and the P-P is the perfect guitar for anyone that cares to learn the system. I'm speaking from 45 years of professional playing on this instrument. Treat them right and they will treat you better.

If you don't play for a living in compitition with other players, or if tone doesn't matter to you, like a lot of folks, and if just can't hear the difference, any guitar will work.

But I did like Donny Hinsons response, (and some others)

Bobbe Seymour

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 3 Sep 2009 8:41 am

I agree with Bobbe.

I got my first PP last July and had it set up by Dave Peterson. It is rock sold and sounds nice. Now, all the problems are me.

Bobbe, when will I sound like you?

Russ

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 3 Sep 2009 9:28 am

You may sound better already!

Bobbe

John McGuire · Post by **John McGuire** » 3 Sep 2009 10:32 am

I have both. The p/p has better tone and sustain and plays just as smooth as the legrande. I had the Legrande first, then bought the p/p. I will buy another p/p someday, but probably won't buy another Legrade or part with the one I got. Many great players started on p/p's years ago, so why not now?

Oops, Sorry Larry. I have a Legrande SKH not a ll2.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 3 Sep 2009 11:14 am

Bobbe,

I do sound better but I'll need more talent to sound like you. You should hear me on fiddle.

Russ

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 3 Sep 2009 12:14 pm

No,,,,,,,, you should hear ME on fiddle,

(then run and hide your ears!)

Bobbe

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 3 Sep 2009 5:36 pm

My son told me I sound like a 12 year old on fiddle. Then I showed him what a few 12 year old fiddle players sound like and he revised the age down.

Brian Pelky · Post by **Brian Pelky** » 3 Sep 2009 6:07 pm

I played Larry's P/P today.....OH MY! I may just have to have one. The tone and sustain! I A/B'd with a ZB I'm looking at. My ears are IN LOVE! Thanks for all your input guys.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 3 Sep 2009 7:33 pm

Some players are born, destined to play an Emmons Original. Others, for whatever reason, are not. Personally, I am one of the former.

The tone of a PP cannot be duplicated on another instrument. There are no tuning problems to an Emmons PP that is set up correctly. The problems come when an inexperienced player starts changing the setups around and turning screws and locknuts that shouldn't be messed with. Don't experiment with changes... stick to the basic tuning and copedent and learn to play the freakin' instrument.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 3 Sep 2009 8:12 pm

Sure, P/P's are "clanky" and have a different tuning procedure, but they sound great and stay in tune forever.
People complain about them being tough to work on, but the p/p changer does have some advantages.

It's about the only changer you can tune by hand, without having to push a pedal or lever. Once you know that changer is in tune, you can make any changes you want and instantly know if they will work simply by observation. No need for a tuner until it's ready to play.

The Steel Guitar Forum

PP vs Lagrande

PP vs Lagrande

Both Great Guitars

LGII vs P/P

Wow!