Rack And Barrel Question

Alan Cook · Post by **Alan Cook** » 12 Aug 2009 1:57 pm

Which way round should the rack be against the barrel? Hard to explain and I don't have a camera to take a pick but I have been looking at the various threads on the forum and some pics show the rack like this [- BARREL and some like ]- BARREL The one I am working on is as {-BARREL and I think it is the wrong way round. The tuning is not always the same when you press the pedal.

Alan

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 12 Aug 2009 2:05 pm

Like so...

Changer is to the left of the pic...

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 12 Aug 2009 8:14 pm

Not sure exactly what you mean, so I apologise if you already know this. But here goes----------

If your barrels look like Skip's picture, they are right. Then you need to tune clockwise or counter clockwise to raise or lower the pitch. Now remember, if it's a lower, it will tune opposite of a raise.

If your pedal/knee lever raises the note, the tuning(Pullrod at the endplate by the pickup) rod will be in the upper hole(s) of the finger, and to make the note sharp by tuning the pullrod, it will turn clockwise.

If your pedal/lever lowers the note, the tuning rod will be in the lower part of the finger, and to, say, tune your note sharp, it will need to move counterclockwise.
Of course, just opposite is true if you need to lower pitch(flat your note)

Of course, to tune your endplate tuners, you press your pedal--and I said that to say this--when you let OFF the pedal your barrel should be slightly loose and a little distance away from the rack so the spring knub misses the rack. If it touches the rack when you let off your pedal, you will just detune it if you tune any other barrels on the same rod.

Hard to explain--it's confusing to put in words. Hope this helps some. I love the rack and barrel 'buds.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 12 Aug 2009 8:43 pm

What James said.
One other thing...Don't try to set up your pulls to have both strings on a rack to start at the same time.
You'll just muck it all up.
Since strings of a different thickness need to travel different distances to reach a pitch, the string that needs to travel less will start later...meaning that particular barrel will have a little more slack off the rack. For ex... on your Eb lever, the 4th string travels further than the 8th string. They both end up at Eb at the same time, but the 8th string will start pulling a little later.
A properly adjusted RnB setup is a joy to play. Fast, versatile and pretty much bullet-proof.
Plus, they're attached to really cool old Buds...

Alan Cook · Post by **Alan Cook** » 12 Aug 2009 10:50 pm

Thanks for the replies looks like they are all in the wrong way round. This is the pic I saw that made me question there position and shows them the correct way round.

Alan Cook · Post by **Alan Cook** » 13 Aug 2009 2:16 am

I have just changed them all the racks round and it plays like a dream now and stays in tune. The only issues are two of the allan grub screws are worn in the allan key hole and one of the barrel spring tips has worn off, probably from rubbing on the rack when it was the wrong way around. Does anyone know where:
I could get another spring?
What size and thread the grub screws in the barrel are?
What is the correct size allen key for the grub screws?

Thanks again everyone

Alan

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 13 Aug 2009 2:25 am

Don't get a new spring. Tom Bradshaw mentioned that you just unscrew the barrel, take off the spring, unwind a bit off the spring and straighten that end with pliers. Use a good barrel to check if the length of the straight part of the spring is right.
Then put it back again. If it is still too long, just clip it.

Alan Cook · Post by **Alan Cook** » 13 Aug 2009 2:28 am

Great tip Nic I'll do that.

Thanks

Al

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 13 Aug 2009 6:38 am

Also, While you are in there doing what Nic says(right on, Nic!!), just take a couple good barrels with good set screws(grub screw) and head out to your favorite hardware store. Buy a half dozen or so extra setscrews and a few allen wrenches to have on hand. You will be squared away. Enjoy

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 13 Aug 2009 8:26 am

unscrew the barrel, take off the spring, unwind a bit off the spring and straighten that end with pliers.

It's very difficult to form a tight, right-angle bend let alone straighten out wire that has been formed into a coil.
I get better a result by disassembling the barrel, and using a lathe, drill press or even a vari-speed hand drill, turning the male-threaded half of the barrel and with a cutting tool, even a file in a 'pinch', removing some of the 'face' from that piece, resulting in a shallower 'shoulder' on the end. This means that the small hole thru which the straight part of the spring goes thru will be shorter, thereby exposing more of the straight end of the spring, allowing it to now 'catch' on the rack.
~Russ

John Groover McDuffie · Post by **John Groover McDuffie** » 13 Aug 2009 8:44 am

I don't think the tip of that spring is essential.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 13 Aug 2009 8:50 am

John Groover McDuffie wrote:I don't think the tip of that spring is essential.

I respectfully disagree. That spring tip is critical to the barrel functioning properly. If it wasn't essential, Shobud would have never bothered with them.

Alan Cook · Post by **Alan Cook** » 13 Aug 2009 9:11 am

All I need now is the screw size and thread type, looks like 1/8" whitworth? and also the correct allan key size, I could go to the local hardware store but would like to know first if possible.

The spring tip does catch the rack so that the adjuster works, for the minute I am just reaching under and holding the end of the broken one to tune it, not a big problem for now but will sort it when I have the set screws.

Is it possible to identify the age from the serial number 2575 stamped on the underside of the guitar? It is a blond s10 with wide pedals and teardrop levers 3X5 It has an fabulous sound.

Thanks all

Alan

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 13 Aug 2009 9:48 am

Don't worry about the size--just match up the one you take in with ya. I'd tell, ya, but I don't know myself. Just match it up.

Serial numbers on a shobud don't tell you much. If you have a few pics you could post, we could ball park the age for you. That's about the best you can do.
And yes, They are a real awesome tone monster.

Alan Cook · Post by **Alan Cook** » 13 Aug 2009 10:46 am

A big thanks to Mr Coop for the promise of springs and screws, I'll post some pic when/if I ever get my camera back (another long story)

Cheers y'all

Al

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 13 Aug 2009 1:08 pm

Yeah, Sho Bud serial numbers don't really tell you much.
For what it's worth, my S10 is #2752, and I bought it new in late '72.

Tom Bradshaw · Post by **Tom Bradshaw** » 13 Aug 2009 6:27 pm

Nic is correct. When the tip of the spring wears down, there is nothing to grab the bellcrank and hold the tuning barrel (when a pedal is depressed) so the string pull can be adjusted. To correct this, first cut off the straight right-angle end of the spring, then form a new straight piece using needle-nosed pliers. You simply bend a right angle in the newly formed straight piece of the spring. Re-insert the straight edge into the small hole in the tuning tube/barrel. Cut the end of the straight piece of the spring so that it protrudes out the small hole about 1/6". It should now work just fine until you wear that tip off again. When that happens, repeat the repair process.

Alan Cook · Post by **Alan Cook** » 14 Aug 2009 2:09 am

I looked on the Sho-Bud site and looks like they were manufactured between 1970 and 1973. If Skips number is anything to go by I guess it must be pre 72. I was told it was made for Denny Laine from Wings!! not very impressive I know and probably why it has very little wear Ha ha. It's the only one I have see with 5 knees but I suppose these could have been added later.

Al

Bill Moore (RIP) · Post by **Bill Moore (RIP)** » 14 Aug 2009 5:05 am

Alan, I believe the correct size for the set screw is 1/8" x 6-32. I don't think it's interchangeable with the Whitworth sizes.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Aug 2009 5:41 am

Just for fun;

Worked just fine from '67 on!

Alan Cook · Post by **Alan Cook** » 14 Aug 2009 6:56 am

You can see it in action here although you cant really hear it until the end of the song the BBC edited the middle solos out because the song was too long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhEe4D1QArc

Al

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 14 Aug 2009 7:25 am

Hey Alan, was that you playing--great form!! I love those old singleneck Professionals--real tone monsters!!

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 14 Aug 2009 8:02 am

John Billings wrote:Just for fun;

Worked just fine from '67 on!

Am I really tired this morning or are the racks in this picture facing the opposite direction to every photo I've ever seen?

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Aug 2009 8:15 am

Marc! You're awake, and you eyesight is fine! This is a very early rack and barrel guitar. Someone screwed up, and put one of the racks together wrong. You couldn't turn it around the correct way. So,,, instead of throwing it away and making a new rack assembly, they simply turned them all around so it would look "right!" Here's a pic of the assembly;

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 14 Aug 2009 8:15 am

Alan Cook wrote:You can see it in action here although you cant really hear it until the end of the song the BBC edited the middle solos out because the song was too long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhEe4D1QArc

Al

Nice, Alan! Great sounding Bud.

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