Is The E9th Tuning Predisposed To Countless "Licks"

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 12 Jul 2009 5:47 am

While pondering who originally saturated the learning process with an endless train of E9th licks, I'm tempted to review originals from others. It's nothing short of amazing, knowing that there is a never ending supply of yet to be discovered licks that will surface in the future.

John McGlothlin · Post by **John McGlothlin** » 12 Jul 2009 7:22 am

I'll never live long enough to get a grip on all the E9 licks that were discovered 30 years ago. And I mean there were some fabulous ones to done by some of the real legends.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 12 Jul 2009 7:38 am

Music itself is an infinite subject. Whether the lines are "licks" or "melodies" is largely a matter of formality. Melodies are likely to be imprinted on the synapses of the unsuspecting listener. This imprinting starts with adherence to a recognizable formal structure, and is reinforced by repetition.

Licks are off-the-cuff phrases between segments of melody. Licks may be imprinted on musicians who have a vested interest in perfecting their craft, but they are rarely noticed by casual listeners. I think about this subject when I listen to instruments that I can't play. Which of these licks are recycled cliches, and which are the performer's original creations? It's hard to tell if you haven't immersed yourself in the history of the instrument.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 12 Jul 2009 7:52 am

Why is it that some people get incredulous that new licks emerge on E9, yet conventional 6 string guitar players have less to work with and have never deemed that the instrument might have reached saturation point of what can be played on it.

The E9 tuning is limited only to the mind of the player.

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 12 Jul 2009 8:45 am

It would seem that the layout of the notes and the mechanical features of any tuning/guitar would predispose [it] to certain licks, phrasing and structures by virtue of its own particularity.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 12 Jul 2009 9:04 am

I find it difficult to ascertain whose contributions are among the most important. Important in such a way that numerous examples have been offered by such great players and teachers, not the least of all Doug Beaumier, who teaches in Massachusetts. In 1997, Doug copyrighted his pedal steel course containing 100 HOT LICKS! It features a book and cassette tape. For those who have the book and tape, it would be a great start. Imagine this! Try to learn one lick each day for one year. Buy, trade, sell, do whatever needs doing, to locate the available tapes. Learn to identify each lick by name and number. Shower yourself with personalized attention to the business at hand.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 12 Jul 2009 4:40 pm

What never ceases to amaze me is that there are 11 notes(12 with the octave) and these 11 notes offer endless possibilities. There is always something new to play..out from those 11 notes.

The suggestion about learning one new lick a dau is a great one, but sadly it would take me more than one day to learn one lick. And then, every day I wold have to rehearse the previously learned licks. Soon there wouldn't be enough hours in the day. What would I do then???

What an awesome thing music is.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 12 Jul 2009 5:39 pm

Bent Romnes wrote:What never ceases to amaze me is that there are 11 notes(12 with the octave) and these 11 notes offer endless possibilities.

I don't have the C on my copedent either.

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 12 Jul 2009 8:52 pm

these 11 notes offer endless
possibilities. There is always
something new to play..out
from those 11 notes.

Bent -
Which one of
the notes has
gone missing?!

~Russ

John Gould · Post by **John Gould** » 13 Jul 2009 5:39 am

I found the missing note on my guitar so I have 12.
I call it B#

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 13 Jul 2009 6:40 am

John -
I'm still searching for the F flat -
I think I'm missing a quarter note
every now and then.

~Russ

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 13 Jul 2009 6:52 am

Ok guys my bad. Shame on me for 3 weeks.
At least I brought the comedian out in some of you's.

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 13 Jul 2009 8:14 am

I play Mandolin, 5-Stg Banjo, Dobro, Guitar and Pedal Steel and it is my experience that each instrument has certin sounds that just seem to be the "no brainer" licks that just fall out of the basic tunings and are the ones that a player will find first.
It is the ones that have to be "hunted down" that are the ones that will make another players head turn and say "how did you do that?"
JE:-)>

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 13 Jul 2009 9:01 am

Some instruments just lend themselves to certain "phrases" but every instrument is limitless...

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 13 Jul 2009 3:30 pm

Josh,

There are thousands of "licks" that can be created from single note variations. The first string of the E9th tuning (F#) when combined with the half tone raise of the 4th string offers countless licks. Each note of a lick can be modified, or vigorously expressed, by slamming the picks or deftly raking the strings. All successful searches should be recorded lest they be forgotten.

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 13 Jul 2009 3:39 pm

yea.. i just tend to not like the word "lick" Since music is a language I always use the term "phrase" when I am teaching....

Lick seems to imply a memorized little thing that your drop in from memory, phrase seems to be more like a line coming from inside you...(even if it is memorized)

I know it is all semantics but I just use the language analogy so much. Every instrument is limitless..... i just think the pedal steel maybe has the best "limitless"

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · Post by **Archie Nicol R.I.P.** » 13 Jul 2009 4:16 pm

Being a uni player, I would do away with the ninth string D and make it the B with a raise to D.
Then the tenth could be used as a G# or E with the same changes as the third and sixth or the fourth and eighth. Not in a uni sense, but like an extended E9th with just ten strings. This has probably been done before, but it's just a thought.

Arch.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 13 Jul 2009 4:55 pm

Josh,

Of course, I've forever and a day despised the term (lick) as much as anyone on the forum. Furthermore, each time I wrote the word, I'd cringe thinking that it is an acceptable term. I'm all for banning the word from this day forward, as it applies to the pedal steel guitar. If you ever read another input that is written by me, using the word, please bring it to my attention. It will be known as the Josh Yenne change of the term stated as "lick" on the steel guitar.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 13 Jul 2009 6:55 pm

I like the word 'lick'. We have always used that word.
Phrase doesn't cover it as well as lick does.
I remember Jeff teaching us that there were "position licks" as well as "scale licks".
"Position phrase" just doesn't cover it in my books.

We are not re-inventing anything here. Let's call a spade a spade.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 13 Jul 2009 7:17 pm

There is only 12 notes, but 'phrasing'and 'timing' is where the 'question' lays!
Note's alone don't cut it.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 14 Jul 2009 1:40 am

Bent,

Fear not! Not once have I accepted the term that Josh has suggested! "PHRASE" as written by JOSH is a poor description of discoveries. To "discover" by viewing illustrations of musical arrangements of note patterns, that prove to be original, as well as irresistible, establishes a form of trust in the adaptation abilities of others. The blocking of broad term discordant language, such as "licks", would satisfy a deep-seated resentment that has surfaced through the efforts of JOSH YENNE.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 14 Jul 2009 1:50 am

Archie,

I like half tone raises to pull a seventh chord. At first glance, I'd say you are not kidding around, and a perusal is in order.

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · Post by **Archie Nicol R.I.P.** » 14 Jul 2009 5:16 am

Bill,

With that option you have a tone and a half raise which sounds good, to my lugs, anyway. Also, with the B raised to C#, raising the string a further half tone on the lever gives the dreaded sus4 in the pedals down mode.

Arch.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 14 Jul 2009 5:58 am

Archie,

I've tried the 3 half tone raises of the 5th string, while searching for a sustaining 7th chord. I once developed a "gumption" tuning on an old Fender 1000. I placed a plain 18 thousandth in the 8th position. It could be raised one half tone to produce a good imitation of the Mooney sound in some of Buck's selections. It was tuned to the 5th string pitch of the 9th tuning. From there I've never strayed from the E9th tuning on my homemade steel.

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 14 Jul 2009 6:29 am

Predisposed to countless licks?

Well I guess you've never heard me play have you Bill?