Ideas for alternative pull rod clips - please!

Greg Gefell · Post by **Greg Gefell** » 3 Jul 2009 6:11 am

I need to remove all the pull rods from my Zum stage one for some undercarriage mods I'll be making. The current pull rod clips are very difficult to work with - both the removal and reinstallation.

I don't have a picture of the current clips but they sort of look like this - a very thin metal retaining washer.

Can anyone suggest a rod clip replacement that would be a little easier to work with?

Bobby Burns · Post by **Bobby Burns** » 3 Jul 2009 6:35 am

Check with Jeff Surrat at Show Pro. The spring clips that he uses are the easiest to deal with part for this connection that I have seen. They are a spring that slides over the rod with a hook bent in the end that goes around the puller and around the bent end of the rod. No tools required. It his hard to describe, but is very easy to got the rod on and off the puller, but stays put until you want to remove it.

Ronnie Boettcher · Post by **Ronnie Boettcher** » 3 Jul 2009 10:02 am

The old carbuerator clips that was used to connect the rod to the carb, is somewhat what you are looking for. Very adjustible, and when clipped on stays put.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 3 Jul 2009 5:36 pm

Greg, these tension washers can be difficult, but with a cheap pick set and needle nose pliers they can be managed fairly easily.

These same disc style retainers were used on certain automotive carburetor and other linkages. I saw a bunch of 'em when I was in the repair business. Basically, you need a really thin screwdriver blade, like those of a pocket screwdriver, or mini-pic to move it enough so that you can grab it with the needle nose and gently work it off the rod.

If it is too loose when you reinstall it, you can squeeze over the hole with the pliers and flatten it back out.

Sometimes with repeated use, they can break and in that case, you'd have no alternative but repalace it. They should be available from Doug, though. Good hdwe. stores have them too.

Actually, I think they work pretty well overall.

The old Sho-Bud style carb clips mentioned above would work but they're hard to find since there's no Sho-Bud co any more and there aren't many carburetors either, so auto supply houses just don't have them. They'd probably be too large diameter though. [They can be either left or righthanded too.] I know, I've tried to find them.

Perhaps Coop would have them, I don't know.

If you weren't adverse to modification, you could drill a tiny hole in the pull rod ends and install hairpin clips...or go with Bobby's tip.

Bobby Burns · Post by **Bobby Burns** » 3 Jul 2009 5:59 pm

The Show Pro clips work sort of like those old-time carb clips, but they are made like springs. The go on easier, and the springiness hold enough tension so they stay put until you want to remove them.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 3 Jul 2009 8:15 pm

I've added (2)-split/tuner rods to my recently purchased Sho-Bud and I made a clip out of a standard paper-clip. Wrap it around the main part of the rod, put a right-angle in it and then wrap it around the portion of the rod that protrudes through the bellcrank. It seems to be working very well!

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 4 Jul 2009 12:03 am

Two cheap alternatives that might work: small plastic cable-ties; steel guitar string. Both will hold the rod to the bellcrank, both are cheap and easy to get; both are ugly and look tacky.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 4 Jul 2009 9:12 am

you can buy those at any auto parts store if you want to keep that original, but i agree , it's abit difficult in making immediate changes on the fly.

Greg Gefell · Post by **Greg Gefell** » 5 Jul 2009 6:19 pm

Thanks for the tips guys. I've been searching for existing parts but I may wind up having to make what I need from scratch - a thin plastic disc with the hole a few thousandths undersized. Snug fit but movable with hand pressure.

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 7 Jul 2009 8:39 am

Greg, I make my own, I use a #29 music spring wire. Buy a one pound spool of it and you can make a thousand or two for about $7.00. It takes me about 40 seconds to make one complete. Martin.

A. J. Martinez · Post by **A. J. Martinez** » 8 Jul 2009 7:49 pm

Martin...where do you get this #29 music spring wire? A.J.

Bill Moore (RIP) · Post by **Bill Moore (RIP)** » 9 Jul 2009 4:44 am

Martin, I tried to bend some wire clips like that, i couldn't seem to get them right. I tried different sized wire, but wasn't able to do it. Did you make a form of some kind? I tried to bend the wire around the actual rod. Do you have a picture showing how you bent them? If so, I would like to see it. Thanks,

Bill

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 9 Jul 2009 5:59 am

To the folks that want to make clips, Go to McMaster-Carr. Part # 9666K24 (spring tempered carbon steel # 29 music wire). The price for a one pound spool is $9.62 plus shipping. Use a piece of pull rod or slightly larger rod and mount horazontally (eee-gaddss ! how do you spell that?) in a vise. Cut about one foot of wire and grab both ends with two pair of vise-grip pliers. With your left hand up close to the vise for stability, start your wraps with long sweeping wraps with your right hand. Try to turn the pliers in your right hand while wrapping to keep the wire from twisting too bad. IMPORTANT, You must keep as much strain on the wire as you can at all times with out breaking it. When you wrap, brush up against the previous coil with your wire. This will insure the coils are close together, actually touching. all 90 degree bends can be made with needle nose pliers. The single loop in the end can be made by holding the wire "in line" with vise-grips and taking a single turn around the mandril. It will take a few practice trys but you will catch on very quickly. Be carefull of things around the vise cause you will break a wire on ocasion and when you do, your hand will go flying away to goodness knows where from all the strain you are pulling,and you will hit something if there is anything nearby. Trust me, it smarts. Hope this helps. Martin.

Pat Comeau · Post by **Pat Comeau** » 9 Jul 2009 10:29 am

Hi Martin,

Can you use that same type of wire to make tension springs for the changer?...

thanks..........Pat C.

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 10 Jul 2009 3:21 am

Pat, I sent you a private E-Mail. Martin.

Greg Gefell · Post by **Greg Gefell** » 10 Jul 2009 5:37 am

More great ideas! Thanks for the input.

Pat Comeau · Post by **Pat Comeau** » 10 Jul 2009 7:47 pm

Hi Martin,

I can't find your message you've send me, can you send again

thanks............Pat C.

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 11 Jul 2009 3:06 am

Pat, I guess I am having problems with my E-mail, so to answer your question, I have never made the larger lower return springs. I am not sure but I think they are a different type wire altogether. I think I will just continue to buy my return springs . I do make torsion springs for the shafts on knee levers and pedal return springs and they work great. Martin.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 11 Jul 2009 3:40 am

Martin or Mike as his friends here in Florida call him is a master craftsman.
I am in the process with Mike at this time having him build me a modified SD-10 to my specs so it will fit my body and playing style.
He ordered the curly maple wood we picked out and will start on it as soon as he finishes his personal steel he is building now.
I hope to have it for a Christmas present to myself.
Don

Greg Gefell · Post by **Greg Gefell** » 11 Jul 2009 5:31 am

I'm also going to experiment today with making a custom plastic washer with a slightly undersized hole. If it slides on and off with moderate pressure it should stay put. Down to the lathe I go...

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 11 Jul 2009 6:44 am

Greg, those original clips you had are called roto-clip. They come for different size rod diameters. If you want to go back with them let me know and I'll tell you where to get them. Martin.

Bobby Burns · Post by **Bobby Burns** » 11 Jul 2009 7:11 pm

Hey Martin(Mike?), thanks for the info on making the springs. Yours look pretty much just like the ones from Jeff Surrat. I had thought about this myself, but it's just too easy for a lazy guy to order them from Show Pro. I'll most likely try to make some of these next time I need them. I really like this design.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 12 Jul 2009 5:12 pm

Don S. I can confirm what you wrote, that Martin is a master craftsman.
He has tutored me through my last project when I built the 2 pedal steels.

Martin also showed me how to make those springs for the cross shafts. They turn out identical and also factory made.
I found out that winding 4 coils in the shaft springs gives you the return pressure that you need. Pat, you'll be surprised, you can hardly detect that tension on your knee/foot when operating the lever/pedal.
I added a nice little idea: I dip the straight end of the spring in plasti-dip, the gooey stuff you dip tool handles in to make a plastic handle cover. This protects the finish under the deck.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Ideas for alternative pull rod clips - please!

Ideas for alternative pull rod clips - please!

Clips

Martin

Clips

Wire

Wire

Clips